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Why Bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme

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Re: Why Bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme

#21

Post by danlugo92 »

boxmonster wrote: post #9

The counter argument is that Bitcoin provides more than 45 million dollars a day in utility. edit: Does the lightning network need Bitcoin to work or is it just Venmo?

> Does the lightning network need Bitcoin to work or is it just Venmo?

It is built atop of bitcoin and provides as much safety as bitcoin itself, with one single exception: you cannot be offline for more than a week.

It's a fair tradeoff you have to take in order to instantly transfer trillions of dollars for cents worldwide.

Re: Why Bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme

#22

Post by brightstep »

anovikov wrote: post #11
foxes wrote: post #3

Fresh in-pouring of victims to sustain the whole thing, while some bigger players benefit. Im sorry, I don't want to argue anymore with crypto advocates. There is no more rational discussion to possibly be had about any of the current contenders in this space. The whole thing needs to be pulled apart. Just because some people earn money from it, doesn't make it moral, a good idea , useful, or bettering human society.…

Well, if crypto is meant to be used as a method of investment, then sorry, nothing which does not generate rent can be a viable method of investment (can sometimes be a method of preserving wealth e.g. gold but even that barely). In this sense, i agree with you. But crypto is also very useful for undermining governments - making them unnecessary. Which is a beneficial thing for all humankind. Whenever government real…

Governments could destroy crypto if they wanted. See China as the most obvious example. A novel technology doesn't stand much of a chance against men with guns.

Re: Why Bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme

#23

Post by skohan »

LatteLazy wrote: post #10
arbuge wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison to oil isn't quite fair to oil. Oil has a lot of negative side effects, to be clear, but the benefits to society from the use of oil include pretty much all the things we depend on for modern civilization. That is why replacing oil with renewables is going to be such a challenge. When it comes to crypto, on the other hand, I think the challenge would be listing any real benefits to begin with.

I'm not sure whether crypto is a good or bad thing overall but there are plenty of good uses for it: * In countries with unstable currencies they are useful stores of value (Venezuela, Turkey and Zimbabwe right now). I was in Zim back in 2010 and visited someone's house. It was filled with petrol because he had been paid and had to spend the money before it lost its value so he bought what was available. Bitcoin woul…

It might be worth noting that the wild volatility of cryptocurrencies hurts all of these use-cases.

Re: Why Bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme

#24

Post by LatteLazy »

yosito wrote: post #16
LatteLazy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure whether crypto is a good or bad thing overall but there are plenty of good uses for it: * In countries with unstable currencies they are useful stores of value (Venezuela, Turkey and Zimbabwe right now). I was in Zim back in 2010 and visited someone's house. It was filled with petrol because he had been paid and had to spend the money before it lost its value so he bought what was available. Bitcoin woul…

> In countries with unstable currencies they are useful stores of value (Venezuela, Turkey and Zimbabwe right now) Also, Cuba and Argentina. While Bitcoin may be more accessible to people in these countries, they could also store value in USD, or other stable assets. > By making online retail anonymous I really don't understand the persistent myth that blockchains are anonymous.

Blockchain is anonymous if you use it correctly I believe (don't reuse wallets, launder you coins etc) but you're right that the vast majority of people don't do that as far as I'm aware.

Full disclosure: I've never actually done it either and I'm no expert...

Re: Why Bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme

#26

Post by luma »

LatteLazy wrote: post #10
arbuge wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison to oil isn't quite fair to oil. Oil has a lot of negative side effects, to be clear, but the benefits to society from the use of oil include pretty much all the things we depend on for modern civilization. That is why replacing oil with renewables is going to be such a challenge. When it comes to crypto, on the other hand, I think the challenge would be listing any real benefits to begin with.

I'm not sure whether crypto is a good or bad thing overall but there are plenty of good uses for it: * In countries with unstable currencies they are useful stores of value (Venezuela, Turkey and Zimbabwe right now). I was in Zim back in 2010 and visited someone's house. It was filled with petrol because he had been paid and had to spend the money before it lost its value so he bought what was available. Bitcoin woul…

* Bitcoin is and has been available in countries where there are currency problems and it has yet to solve any of them. This canard has been trotted out for over a decade, there have been plenty of chances to demonstrate this notion, and none of them have panned out. When do we stop flogging this obviously-false excuse?

* Transaction fees and exchange rates into and out of the crypto economy make transferring money in bitcoin incredibly expensive. Also, slow.

* What part of bitcoin is anonymous exactly?

Re: Why Bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme

#27

Post by CryptoPunk »

meragrin_ wrote: post #18
elvatoloco123 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto=/= Bitcoin Bitcoin offers a decentralized, supply capped alternative to central banking. If this seems useful to you, use it, if it doesn't, don't use it. Simple as that. Currently people find the ability to have unconfiscatable money attractive.

How is Bitcoin unconfiscatable? Just confiscate all wallets. If they are encrypted in some way, they would still be inaccessible to the person. If they can be recreated, the person can be monitored to determine how to recreate the wallet and then be drained.

A person can hide the fact that they have a wallet. Confiscating information, that can be stored as a secret passphrase in your brain, is extremely difficult.

Re: Why Bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme

#28

Post by naruvimama »

LatteLazy wrote: post #10
arbuge wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison to oil isn't quite fair to oil. Oil has a lot of negative side effects, to be clear, but the benefits to society from the use of oil include pretty much all the things we depend on for modern civilization. That is why replacing oil with renewables is going to be such a challenge. When it comes to crypto, on the other hand, I think the challenge would be listing any real benefits to begin with.

I'm not sure whether crypto is a good or bad thing overall but there are plenty of good uses for it: * In countries with unstable currencies they are useful stores of value (Venezuela, Turkey and Zimbabwe right now). I was in Zim back in 2010 and visited someone's house. It was filled with petrol because he had been paid and had to spend the money before it lost its value so he bought what was available. Bitcoin woul…

* It is a store of nothing, in fact it is drain of enormous amounts of electricity and computational power.

* I wish it were cheaper or simpler, it was true in its early days but not anymore once there is speculation & "store of value"

* I agree that some countries like Venezuela can benefit. In a pure capitalist society one still has to risk their money to buy shares at the minimum. In the case of Bitcoin one only has to sit on it and wait for Venezuelan assets to come and back it up. Poor Venezuelans are are going to part with their assets to make some speculator rich, let us not forget the other unsavoury type who most need anonymity.

* There is a very high chance that major countries are going to bar private crypto being backed by regulated institutions like banks.

Re: Why Bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme

#29

Post by BurningPenguin »

yosito wrote: post #16
LatteLazy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure whether crypto is a good or bad thing overall but there are plenty of good uses for it: * In countries with unstable currencies they are useful stores of value (Venezuela, Turkey and Zimbabwe right now). I was in Zim back in 2010 and visited someone's house. It was filled with petrol because he had been paid and had to spend the money before it lost its value so he bought what was available. Bitcoin woul…

> In countries with unstable currencies they are useful stores of value (Venezuela, Turkey and Zimbabwe right now) Also, Cuba and Argentina. While Bitcoin may be more accessible to people in these countries, they could also store value in USD, or other stable assets. > By making online retail anonymous I really don't understand the persistent myth that blockchains are anonymous.

Bitcoin isn't, but there are alternatives that are. Like Monero. It just doesn't get as much hype.
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