Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware • Hacker News Board

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#21

Post by durnygbur » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

Claude_Shannon wrote: post #4

We have a meme - "when there is a pandemic and you don't know whether to close schools or cementaries, so you close Giertych". It is almost a tradition at this moment - cases are rising? Quick, arrest him! Okay, on a serious note - this won't change anything. Poland is very polarised right now politically. PiS voters won't care as long as the state gives them money, and the rest already won't vote for them no matter…

> so you close Giertych

It's mindblowing how skillful and cunning he was in avoiding any repercussions, including being freed without paying the bail. For an average person such problems would be beginning of an end, courts would cut off any appeals instantly. Gods are untouchable regardless of the side they are standing.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#22

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

trasz wrote: post #18

Claude_Shannon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no hope anymore. It won't get better. If people want 500 zł monthly and are willing to sell themselves and the country for that - let them...

Well, look at it this way: how bad it must have been for those people to prefer the 500zł instead? I'd say that's what the previous government missed completely: that the old state of affairs simply didn't work for many people.

[deleted]

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#23

Post by pftburger » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

I wonder what it will take for states to eventually get fed up enough to ban NSO outright.

I guess they would probably have to stop being happy customers themselves first though…

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#24

Post by trasz » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 1:29 PM UTC

skocznymroczny wrote: post #20

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will take an enormous amount of effort and money to fix everything they brought down. But I believe in Poles - they rebuilt their capital from ruins after WW2, they made an enormous progress after they became a democracy, so no doubt they will also manage to fix everything the populists are destroying right now. But as you say - it's a pity Polish people lost a few years and lots of opportunities.

Destroying is a bit of an overstatement. Unfortunately we live in a political climate, not only in Poland, that whenever left-wing candidates lose an election, it's populism and backsliding on democracy. But if the candidate that was supposed to win, wins, companies are all foreign owned and NGOs control all spheres of life, then it's freedom and democracy.

Except there were no left-wing candidates here. Poland has effectively two-party system, with both parties being somewhat right-wing.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#25

Post by rhn_mk1 » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

durnygbur wrote: post #21

Claude_Shannon wrote: post #4

We have a meme - "when there is a pandemic and you don't know whether to close schools or cementaries, so you close Giertych". It is almost a tradition at this moment - cases are rising? Quick, arrest him! Okay, on a serious note - this won't change anything. Poland is very polarised right now politically. PiS voters won't care as long as the state gives them money, and the rest already won't vote for them no matter…

> so you close Giertych It's mindblowing how skillful and cunning he was in avoiding any repercussions, including being freed without paying the bail. For an average person such problems would be beginning of an end, courts would cut off any appeals instantly. Gods are untouchable regardless of the side they are standing.

We're talking about a lawyer, not an average person :)

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#26

Post by yetihehe » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

durnygbur wrote: post #21

Claude_Shannon wrote: post #4

We have a meme - "when there is a pandemic and you don't know whether to close schools or cementaries, so you close Giertych". It is almost a tradition at this moment - cases are rising? Quick, arrest him! Okay, on a serious note - this won't change anything. Poland is very polarised right now politically. PiS voters won't care as long as the state gives them money, and the rest already won't vote for them no matter…

> so you close Giertych It's mindblowing how skillful and cunning he was in avoiding any repercussions, including being freed without paying the bail. For an average person such problems would be beginning of an end, courts would cut off any appeals instantly. Gods are untouchable regardless of the side they are standing.

Not knowing law doesn't free you from repercussions. Knowing law often does.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#27

Post by bitcharmer » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

praptak wrote: post #12

Israel banned Poland from using NSO spyware after this: https://wyborcza.pl/7,173236,27895266,israel-bans-polish-int... "On November 25, the Times of Israel reported that the Israeli government has banned the sales of Pegasus to autocratic regimes, as well as to the governments of Poland and Hungary. The list of countries to which Israeli surveillance companies can sell their spyware has been reduced from 102 to 37.…

>Times of Israel reported that the Israeli government has banned the sales of Pegasus to autocratic regimes, as well as to the governments of Poland and Hungary

This may sound a little paranoid but I always treat declarations like this with a grain of salt.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#28

Post by bitcharmer » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

trasz wrote: post #18

Claude_Shannon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no hope anymore. It won't get better. If people want 500 zł monthly and are willing to sell themselves and the country for that - let them...

Well, look at it this way: how bad it must have been for those people to prefer the 500zł instead? I'd say that's what the previous government missed completely: that the old state of affairs simply didn't work for many people.

It still doesn't work as all those social programs are unsustainable from fiscal viewpoint.

It's all financed by debt and inflation.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#29

Post by trasz » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

bitcharmer wrote: post #28

trasz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, look at it this way: how bad it must have been for those people to prefer the 500zł instead? I'd say that's what the previous government missed completely: that the old state of affairs simply didn't work for many people.

It still doesn't work as all those social programs are unsustainable from fiscal viewpoint. It's all financed by debt and inflation.

Not true. In fact, those programs are only barely more expensive than "podatek liniowy", which got introduced decades ago and which is essentially a subsidy for the wealthy for being wealthy.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#30

Post by solarkraft » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

Jeff_Brown wrote: post #9

praptak wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This case is different in that the NSO sold the tech to a government of a (supposedly) democratic country, EU & NATO member.

Do they sell the tech or the service? A business modelo where NSO decides for themselves whether a victim merits hacking seems more defensible than one where they imagine they can tell that a government will never do wrong if it owns the tool.

This would however destroy the "we only sell the weapons and can't decide how they're used" defense, as well as having to be thoroughly informed about each target.