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Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

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Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#21

Post by thghtihadanacct »

phkahler wrote: post #8
syki wrote: post #3

Democratic senators represent 40 million more people than Republican senators and their agenda can't be passed. The last time Republican senators represented more than half the population was 1996. Rural, low population states have far too much power in the present system. This is not sustainable. I know Manchin is nominally a Democrat but it's not him that is blocking the legislation it is him and all 50 Republican…

>> Democratic senators represent 40 million more people than Republican senators and their agenda can't be passed. The last time Republican senators represented more than half the population was 1996. Rural, low population states have far too much power in the present system. This is not sustainable. Spending insane amounts of money like that is not sustainable. We are already looking at greater than 10 percent annua…

This bill looks like its trying to give some of it back too. One of the few times a big bill like this goes to us rather than war, bank bail outs, or propping up some other country.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#22

Post by errcorrectcode »

cm2187 wrote: post #9
syki wrote: post #3

Democratic senators represent 40 million more people than Republican senators and their agenda can't be passed. The last time Republican senators represented more than half the population was 1996. Rural, low population states have far too much power in the present system. This is not sustainable. I know Manchin is nominally a Democrat but it's not him that is blocking the legislation it is him and all 50 Republican…

The point of having two chambers is that they are selected in a different way, otherwise you might as well have only one. The senate is a way for smaller states to not be in a permanent structural minority and have no say on the direction of the country. Many countries have a similar system. Also even the house is not a proportional system. I know some people like proportional systems but let’s keep in mind they ofte…

No post body was provided.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#23

Post by DennisAleynikov »

thghtihadanacct wrote: post #12
rafale wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a republic, not a democracy. And for good reasons. Otherwise, politicians will try to one-up each other with promises of freebies. It's easy to win elections when you promise free healthcare, free education, free childcare,... The average person will vote in their immediate interest and not worry about the big picture. The big picture: nothing is free.

I dont remember seeing the word 'free' in the posted article anywhere related to the paying for this bill. In fact, it clearly states the cost will come from taxes on the wealthy ... whom Manchin represents.

those damn wealthy... and their... running the country into the ground... darn Manchin can't get his hands out of the coffers long enough to see the people suffering outside!!!

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#24

Post by maxerickson »

errcorrectcode wrote: post #17
syki wrote: post #3

Democratic senators represent 40 million more people than Republican senators and their agenda can't be passed. The last time Republican senators represented more than half the population was 1996. Rural, low population states have far too much power in the present system. This is not sustainable. I know Manchin is nominally a Democrat but it's not him that is blocking the legislation it is him and all 50 Republican…

Gerrymandering is completely out of control. Mostly R's are locking-in their wins for the foreseeable future. I don't think it's a D/R thing in particular. He's completely corrupt by WV coal and other corporate interests paying him to be an insurgent DINO to do their bidding. Sinema is clearly a nutter and possibly corrupt too. The D's and R's also contain too many corrupt, plutocrat sycophants to name individually h…

Senate isn't gerrymandered.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#25

Post by karlshea »

It’s $2T over 9 years.

Meanwhile the senate passed another $768 billion defense bill, which is about $7T over the same time period, without even a blink.

Manchin had no issue voting for the later, so all his posturing about the former seems pretty hollow.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#26

Post by errcorrectcode »

maxerickson wrote: post #24
errcorrectcode wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gerrymandering is completely out of control. Mostly R's are locking-in their wins for the foreseeable future. I don't think it's a D/R thing in particular. He's completely corrupt by WV coal and other corporate interests paying him to be an insurgent DINO to do their bidding. Sinema is clearly a nutter and possibly corrupt too. The D's and R's also contain too many corrupt, plutocrat sycophants to name individually h…

Senate isn't gerrymandered.

I wasn't talking about that. The House is. Duh.

The problem is still that the Senate gives nearly empty, conservative states outsized power they don't deserve. It was a Colonial concern that no longer exists to the degree it did during the founding.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#27

Post by [deleted] »

maxerickson wrote: post #24
errcorrectcode wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gerrymandering is completely out of control. Mostly R's are locking-in their wins for the foreseeable future. I don't think it's a D/R thing in particular. He's completely corrupt by WV coal and other corporate interests paying him to be an insurgent DINO to do their bidding. Sinema is clearly a nutter and possibly corrupt too. The D's and R's also contain too many corrupt, plutocrat sycophants to name individually h…

Senate isn't gerrymandered.

[deleted]

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#28

Post by gjsman-1000 »

errcorrectcode wrote: post #22
cm2187 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of having two chambers is that they are selected in a different way, otherwise you might as well have only one. The senate is a way for smaller states to not be in a permanent structural minority and have no say on the direction of the country. Many countries have a similar system. Also even the house is not a proportional system. I know some people like proportional systems but let’s keep in mind they ofte…

Quoted post unavailable.

Yes, I do, so that the rich states don’t fall into the trap of thinking everybody is like them and as rich as them and thinks as they do and loves every new idea they have.

Checks and balances.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#29

Post by Ekaros »

errcorrectcode wrote: post #26
maxerickson wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Senate isn't gerrymandered.

I wasn't talking about that. The House is. Duh. The problem is still that the Senate gives nearly empty, conservative states outsized power they don't deserve. It was a Colonial concern that no longer exists to the degree it did during the founding.

There is easy solutions for this. 1. Break up the union. Each state goes it own way or forms a block between neighbours. 2. Get rid of states in general. Same federal laws and rule over all of the USA.

Re: Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

#30

Post by kergonath »

synergy20 wrote: post #16
rafale wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a republic, not a democracy. And for good reasons. Otherwise, politicians will try to one-up each other with promises of freebies. It's easy to win elections when you promise free healthcare, free education, free childcare,... The average person will vote in their immediate interest and not worry about the big picture. The big picture: nothing is free.

Exactly right. "Rural, low population states have far too much power in the present system. This is not sustainable" is wrong in that, pure democracy leads to pure majority rule, which causes stability issues in no time, history tells a lot of those stories.

Come on, there are plenty of healthy democracies in which all votes have the same weight, it’s trivial to demonstrate how wrong you are.

“One person, one vote” might have been radical 300 years ago, but it really should not be controversial in the 21st century.

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