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I bought 1000 meters of wire to settle a physics debate [video]

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Re: I bought 1000 meters of wire to settle a physics debate [video]

#21

Anyone care to give us a Too Long; Didn't View?

Here's a summary, but really you should watch the video, it is great.

Take 1km of wire, a resistor lightbulb, and a power source. Connect oscilliscope around power source. Flip switch.

For 1 light-speed delay, you actually see current going across the lightbulb! After the speed of light delay, current starts flowing normally as expected. (Why? How? Is this spooky action at a distance?)

You're actually seeing cross-talk between the wires where the build-up of electrons on the high side actually moves electrons on the (spatially) adjacent side of the loop!

Then to really complete the puzzle, sever the end of the wire. You still see the exact same behavior up to the speed-of-light time! (Which, how could you not! You need to wait a speed-of-light delay to _discover_ that the wire was severed, so you MUST see the exact same behavior.)

Re: I bought 1000 meters of wire to settle a physics debate [video]

#22
post #5

That Veritasium video is one of the most controversial educational videos I've seen. I think one of the issues with it is that it's a bit pedantic, but also ignores other issues, that invites other people to be pedantic about it.

True. It’s one of only a handful of YT videos I’ve ever left a comment on. In summary, just because something is “wrong” at one scale doesn’t invalidate useful models and workaday theorems at another. Also, for such a pedantic video his field lines were wrong.

Yeah, the assumption that Derek is 3 steps ahead might be wrong and he might just be wrong.

Well played though that the world thinks he knew his wrongness would spur debate.

Speaks to his earned credibility, but not to his infallibility.

Re: I bought 1000 meters of wire to settle a physics debate [video]

#23
post #5

That Veritasium video is one of the most controversial educational videos I've seen. I think one of the issues with it is that it's a bit pedantic, but also ignores other issues, that invites other people to be pedantic about it.

Controversial is fine to the extent the controversy shows people struggling toward clearer understanding and better explanations, and as long as all parties are operating in good faith (i.e. not being deliberately misleading).

Let me highly recommend Mehdi Sadaghdar’s (ElectroBOOM) excellent response video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iph500cPK28 which does a great job of empirically investigating and theoretically explaining the subtleties involved, in a polite, respectful, and entertaining way.

I have similarly enjoyed the exchange between Sadaghdar and Steve Mould about the physics of the “chain fountain”.

These kinds of friendly scientific “debates” show viewers (e.g. kids) a bit of how the scientific process and scientific discourse works, in a form that is more accessible and digestible than technical journal papers or history books.

Having a discussion back and forth helps to improve both viewers’ specific knowledge and viewers’ processes for comprehending and interrogating new information, so long as the median viewer actually sees some of the responses. (Someone who only ever saw the first Veritasium video probably ends up with a somewhat wrong mental model.)

Re: I bought 1000 meters of wire to settle a physics debate [video]

#24
post #2

I'm a big fan of AlphaPhoenix's content. He deserves to be in the big leagues of science YouTubers with SmarterEveryDay, Veritasium, Mark Rober and 3B1B.

Yeah he’s great, I recently binged his videos and he’s criminally underrated. He’s a really smart dude who’s great at explaining things without dumbing it down too much, and also very entertaining. Plus his excitement and enthusiasm is infectious, he really loves what he’s doing.

Re: I bought 1000 meters of wire to settle a physics debate [video]

#25
post #5

That Veritasium video is one of the most controversial educational videos I've seen. I think one of the issues with it is that it's a bit pedantic, but also ignores other issues, that invites other people to be pedantic about it.

As much as I love Veritasium, I feel the OP video is better than his. Actually doing the experiment is really good, and it honestly feels like he was fishing for another debate like the faster than wind car by giving only a super theoretical and unintuitive explanation. (I don't have any real evidence of that, but it does /feel/ like it.)

I also wonder what would happen if, instead of a setup like this:

  ┏───────light────────┓
  ┕──────battery───────┛
You did something like this:

  ┏──────────────light─┓
  ┃                    ┃
  ┃                    ┃
  ┃                    ┃
  ┃                    ┃
  ┃                    ┃
  ┃                    ┃
  ┃                    ┃
  ┃                    ┃
  ┃                    ┃
  ┕─battery────────────┛ 
  
That is, battery (and switch) and light at opposite corners of a large square, instead of on the middle of a long double-line. Veritasium video implies the current will start flowing at sqrt(2) * width, instead of at 2 * width. Would these effects really work over longer distances like this?

Re: I bought 1000 meters of wire to settle a physics debate [video]

#26
post #16

Anyone care to give us a Too Long; Didn't View?

200uA of current flows through the lightbulb instantly, but it doesn't reach full current until speed of light delay.

I don't think this is possible. If it were true, then you could add a transistor and an LED on the other side of the 1000M wire, and light up the LED instantly as soon as you press the switch. (Transistors and LEDs only take a few nanoseconds to turn on.) It's not possible to send any kind of signal or information faster than the speed of light.

Re: I bought 1000 meters of wire to settle a physics debate [video]

#27

I don't think it's possible to detect a 200uA current across the resistor immediately after the switch is turned on. If I understand it correctly, then this would mean that information is being sent faster than the speed of light. Surely this small instant current must be caused by some kind of capacitance or interference.

The resistor is next to the switch. So no information is being transmitted faster than light. It still obeys the direct line of sight speed, just not the wire speed.

Re: I bought 1000 meters of wire to settle a physics debate [video]

#28
post #5

That Veritasium video is one of the most controversial educational videos I've seen. I think one of the issues with it is that it's a bit pedantic, but also ignores other issues, that invites other people to be pedantic about it.

It’s not pedantic.

EMI “teleporting” outside of wires is a real world issue that engineers deal with constantly. FCC certification is almost entirely about this phenomenon.

It’s just told in a confusing controversial way.

Re: I bought 1000 meters of wire to settle a physics debate [video]

#29
post #5

That Veritasium video is one of the most controversial educational videos I've seen. I think one of the issues with it is that it's a bit pedantic, but also ignores other issues, that invites other people to be pedantic about it.

As much as I love Veritasium, I feel the OP video is better than his. Actually doing the experiment is really good, and it honestly feels like he was fishing for another debate like the faster than wind car by giving only a super theoretical and unintuitive explanation. (I don't have any real evidence of that, but it does /feel/ like it.) I also wonder what would happen if, instead of a setup like this: ┏───────light…

Yeah, this is what im wondering. The proposed mechanism for this is that the wires generate electric fields that influence electrons remotely. Fine.

What happens when they are not close enough for any meaningful electric field interaction?

Re: I bought 1000 meters of wire to settle a physics debate [video]

#30
post #16

Anyone care to give us a Too Long; Didn't View?

200uA of current flows through the lightbulb instantly, but it doesn't reach full current until speed of light delay.

A follow-up question: would there be no tiny change in the graph if the wires exiting the battery were further away from the wires immediately entering the light bulb?
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