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Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

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Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#21

Post by w1nk »

camhart wrote: post #16
tptacek wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The platform is wary of surveillance applications, which often have off-label use as stalking tools. It's not so much about whether people agree with parental controls or not; it's that Apple sets a different standard for intrusive parental control software than it does for other tools, because parental control tools are widely misused. If that's the problem you're running up against here, and not that you somehow em…

Then why do they allow competitors to do it? They should be facing the same issues.

I have to imagine the answer lies in the interpretation of the rules you quoted in your post: My app is in alignment with it... I've made sure since day one that a "reasonably suspicious" notification is present when the app is monitoring.

Could you elaborate on what your version of this reasonably suspicious notification compared to your competitors actually is?

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#22

Post by tux3 »

camhart wrote: post #16
tptacek wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The platform is wary of surveillance applications, which often have off-label use as stalking tools. It's not so much about whether people agree with parental controls or not; it's that Apple sets a different standard for intrusive parental control software than it does for other tools, because parental control tools are widely misused. If that's the problem you're running up against here, and not that you somehow em…

Then why do they allow competitors to do it? They should be facing the same issues.

If you think they should do more, then the first step can't be criticized on the grounds that it's not the last step.

Presumably, more will come.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#23

Post by nyuszika7h »

Sorry, but "others got away with it" is not a good argument. I would personally view your software as invasive malware, no matter how good your intentions may be. The right course of action here is to report all similar apps to Apple and have them taken down as well.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#24

Post by openthc »

Hmm, ages ago we added a cannabis related app on Apple/iOS -- and there were loads of other (small-ish) already on there -- to help grow, or find (to buy) or to review cannabis products.

Ours was for regualtory compliance -- a legal obligation for cannabis businesses. REJECTED! And after a 6mo appeal/review process -- with moving goal-posts -- we were allowed back in. YAY.

And then they started getting into the application and making demands -- one was to use their payment systems -- which was BS, because our clients get into the App, and use it most of the time outside of Apple devices (ie: Desktop in Browser). So another round, 3mo later and they'd not force the payment issue.

And the next review required us to remove any details about pricing from our application -- not our app pricing -- but the pricing for the inventory under management. So, users, in-app, couldn't see the regulatory compliance data: price of product sold; in the APP. But we pushed through! and finally got published in the App Store!! Yay!

And one month later we had to renew our Apple Developer -- cause this whole thing took 11 months of back/forth with Apple.

Then we got clients using it (finally!) and the clients were all grumpy cause the features were gone. Then another two more years with us trying to Apple trying to improve our App.

An last year, we just bailed on the App Store and have given up.

What's super frustrating is since we initially tried our process (starting in 2016) -- other cannabis apps, with pricing and online ordering and all this stuff that we were NOT allowed to do are in the store.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#26

Post by johnisgood »

umvi wrote: post #19
bijant wrote: post #13

I‘m sorry for You. I can see how you‘d think that your software is providing society a service. And yet from my perspective your software is malware. I don’t think you have considered the legal ramifications of your software in all markets where the app store is offered. Aside from the legal risk to You, there is also a reputational risk to Apple, a company trying to rebrand itself by focussing on privacy (CSAM nonwi…

> And yet from my perspective your software is malware. So don't buy/install it. But don't take away that choice from other people. I have a good married friend who uses parental control software on himself to reduce the temptation to look at porn. It basically just gives his wife access to his browsing history. Sure, he could bypass it a number of ways if he was really determined, but it's more about just raising th…

It would be a bit less of an issue if Apple allowed apps outside of their store to be installed to begin with.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#27

Post by camhart »

w1nk wrote: post #21
camhart wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do they allow competitors to do it? They should be facing the same issues.

I have to imagine the answer lies in the interpretation of the rules you quoted in your post: My app is in alignment with it... I've made sure since day one that a "reasonably suspicious" notification is present when the app is monitoring. Could you elaborate on what your version of this reasonably suspicious notification compared to your competitors actually is?

The original version of the app I submitted for notarization had the Truple logo, with a red dot/circle to indicate recording and make it more suspicious. The redesign I did dropped the red dot/circle because competitors weren't being forced to do anything like that. Competitors just use their logo. And their logo's aren't any more/less suspicious than Truple's. If you click on the notification on MacOS, a menu pops up indicating the device is being monitored and includes instructions for how to uninstall the app though if you do an alert is sent indicating that you did.

It's convenient to think I've done something wrong here... but I've puzzled over this for 2.5 years, and if I have done something wrong, the least Apple could do is let me know so I can correct it.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#28

Post by nyuszika7h »

umvi wrote: post #19
bijant wrote: post #13

I‘m sorry for You. I can see how you‘d think that your software is providing society a service. And yet from my perspective your software is malware. I don’t think you have considered the legal ramifications of your software in all markets where the app store is offered. Aside from the legal risk to You, there is also a reputational risk to Apple, a company trying to rebrand itself by focussing on privacy (CSAM nonwi…

> And yet from my perspective your software is malware. So don't buy/install it. But don't take away that choice from other people. I have a good married friend who uses parental control software on himself to reduce the temptation to look at porn. It basically just gives his wife access to his browsing history. Sure, he could bypass it a number of ways if he was really determined, but it's more about just raising th…

> So don't buy/install it. But don't take away that choice from other people.

It's not that simple. You are purposefully bringing up an extremely rare use case to detract from the fact that 99% of users of this software are going to be abusive parents who install it on their children's phones without consent. (Or heck, maybe even abusive spouses.) If parents are that concerned, even banning their children from "innocent" apps like Twitter or computer/phone use altogether is better than this invasive 1984-like software.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#29

Post by [deleted] »

umvi wrote: post #19
bijant wrote: post #13

I‘m sorry for You. I can see how you‘d think that your software is providing society a service. And yet from my perspective your software is malware. I don’t think you have considered the legal ramifications of your software in all markets where the app store is offered. Aside from the legal risk to You, there is also a reputational risk to Apple, a company trying to rebrand itself by focussing on privacy (CSAM nonwi…

> And yet from my perspective your software is malware. So don't buy/install it. But don't take away that choice from other people. I have a good married friend who uses parental control software on himself to reduce the temptation to look at porn. It basically just gives his wife access to his browsing history. Sure, he could bypass it a number of ways if he was really determined, but it's more about just raising th…

[deleted]
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