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Kropotkin escapes from prison

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21–30 of 95 posts

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#21

Uncontracted title: "June 30, 1876: Peter Kropotkin Escapes from Prison, A Tale of Derring-Do on the Occasion of His Birthday". I had wondered who the heck Kropotkin was.

For those wondering, Kropotkin was a Russian anarchist philosopher. He’s most famous for “The Conquest of Bread”.

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#22

That was great. While in jail I only had two serious opportunities to escape. The first an unscheduled incoming call from an embassy official meant I was brought to a secure area to use a special phone. It was right by the sally port [0] which normally has at least one door closed. Both were open. I could have run directly out to the street. The guards do not carry their guns inside the jail. The second was on a run…

Surely even if they had guns, murdering you is not an appropriate response to a possible escape?

some people get murdered before they even get to jail

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#23

Uncontracted title: "June 30, 1876: Peter Kropotkin Escapes from Prison, A Tale of Derring-Do on the Occasion of His Birthday". I had wondered who the heck Kropotkin was.

For those wondering, Kropotkin was a Russian anarchist philosopher. He’s most famous for “The Conquest of Bread”.

Yes and I also find the term “libertarian communist” useful to describe him (and myself).

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely even if they had guns, murdering you is not an appropriate response to a possible escape?

Depends on how dangerous the criminal is. For a serial killer? Yeah, it might be.

Even a "suspected" serial killer isn't a serial killer until convicted and jailed as such (innocent until proven guilty) if they had access to the street to try and make their getaway.

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are dealing with multiple meanings of word "communism" here. Anarchists are opposed to communism in the commonly understood sense: a centralized state ruled by the communist party. Kropotkin was friendly with the Bolsheviks, who had not become communists in that sense yet. He supported the October Revolution, but he quickly became critical of Bolshevik rule afterwards. He believed it would not lead into co…

A centralized state ruled by a party is not the commonly understood sense, or people would think that all dictatorships are communist, which they don't. In either case, it is bizarre to try to correct the record with something that is in and of itself a misunderstanding. The Bolsheviks were very forthcoming. They professed from even before the revolution that they were aiming for a pretty centralized state ruled by a…

A centralized state ruled by the communist party is the commonly understood meaning. You almost certainly understood the intent before you mistook the explanation for a definition, dropped the word "communist", and argued against a literal interpretation of the words.

Pre-revolution Bolsheviks argued that a centralized socialist state was a necessary step before achieving "true" communism. Kropotkin disagreed (one meaning of "critical") with that. He supported the February revolution and returned to the country after that, but he refused to take a position in the moderate socialist government. Kropotkin gladly supported the October revolution that replaced the moderate socialists with radical ones. He was strongly opposed to (another meaning of "critical") the "war communism" that emerged after the second revolution, and he didn't live to see the period of state capitalism that followed.

In any case, the system we currently understand as communism didn't emerge until around 1930, making it irrelevant when talking about Kropotkin.

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#27

[flagged]

Kropotkin was an anarchist and generally opposed to communism. Wars have been fought over the distinction.

Not really, left anarchists and communists are after the same goal through different means. Kropotkin and Marx went back and forth, often disagreed, but only on matters pertaining to authority. Ultimately they both wanted a stateless classless and moneyless society.

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are dealing with multiple meanings of word "communism" here. Anarchists are opposed to communism in the commonly understood sense: a centralized state ruled by the communist party. Kropotkin was friendly with the Bolsheviks, who had not become communists in that sense yet. He supported the October Revolution, but he quickly became critical of Bolshevik rule afterwards. He believed it would not lead into co…

A centralized state ruled by a party is not the commonly understood sense, or people would think that all dictatorships are communist, which they don't. In either case, it is bizarre to try to correct the record with something that is in and of itself a misunderstanding. The Bolsheviks were very forthcoming. They professed from even before the revolution that they were aiming for a pretty centralized state ruled by a…

What are the varying/conflicting definitions of Communism here, and which one is the 'correct' one?

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A centralized state ruled by a party is not the commonly understood sense, or people would think that all dictatorships are communist, which they don't. In either case, it is bizarre to try to correct the record with something that is in and of itself a misunderstanding. The Bolsheviks were very forthcoming. They professed from even before the revolution that they were aiming for a pretty centralized state ruled by a…

What are the varying/conflicting definitions of Communism here, and which one is the 'correct' one?

One is : a society that is not capitalist, ie, the means of production are owned by the workers.

The other is, apparently, a centralized society run by people that call themselves communist.

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