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The HTTP of VR

roderickkennedy.com

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Re: The HTTP of VR

#21

Post by agar »

Bellend wrote: post #13
usrbinbash wrote: post #2

What exactly is the "metaverse" supposed to be, other than a marketing term to sell a more expensive class of IO devices? People will not switch over in droves to do their text/image/video editing in VR all of a sudden, because other than a few special design applications, there is no point in doing so...it's slower, clumsier and the input devices are much less precise than mouse&keyboard. Another supposed target dem…

I was thinking about exactly this today! On the right of me I have an oculus quest which I got 2-3 months ago and honestly, it is gathering dust. Just the idea of picking it up and putting it on my face is enough to make me think meh. I did though and I feel like I can't be the only one who finds it really frustrating to the point of making me furious. 1. I started with my eyes at floor level. 2. It moans about a gua…

Jeez, you're slagging the entire value of VR because your specific setup is finicky?

Your complaints # 1-3 are a software issue that, while mildly annoying, will ultimately be resolved in an update. Creating a new guardian is literally a 15 second process.

Numbers 4-8 are because you choose to use a wireless headset from Oculus as a wired headset through Steam. Of course that's your choice, but the optimized workflow - that the vast majority of buyers use and is the primary product design - is to use on-headset apps without a PC or cable entirely.

It's also highly unfair to say "very very few things work well in VR" based on your experience. The vast majority of consumers don't care about Facebook IDs, or PCVR, or Steam libraries, or future compatibility concerns, or the other reasons you probably choose the setup you do.

If you want to judge the current state of VR for the mass market, go to the on-headset Quest store and try Walking Dead, Resident Evil 4, Walkabout Mini Golf, Contractors, Eleven Table Tennis, I Expect You to Die, Thrill of the Fight, In Death: Unchained, Fisherman's Tale, RealVR Fishing, Golf+, Moss, Tetris Effect, Pistol Whip, Red Matter, Shadow Point, or any of the other highly rated games that work out of the box.

Re: The HTTP of VR

#22

Post by kilna »

donmcronald wrote: post #5
usrbinbash wrote: post #2

What exactly is the "metaverse" supposed to be, other than a marketing term to sell a more expensive class of IO devices? People will not switch over in droves to do their text/image/video editing in VR all of a sudden, because other than a few special design applications, there is no point in doing so...it's slower, clumsier and the input devices are much less precise than mouse&keyboard. Another supposed target dem…

The inefficiency may not matter if the inconvenienced workers don't get a say. A virtual environment is a corporate dream come true in terms of monitoring. Imagine an AI manager that could monitor workers and virtually walk up behind the ones that aren't being productive. With spatial audio every worker could feel like they're being monitored continuously when it's really just an AI manager monitoring everyone. Just…

If you have a virtual boss so good it can't be easily gamed (it actually knows the worker's job), and also so socially nuanced that people will actually work for it, then you have an AI advanced enough to just do the worker's job and the worker wouldn't be there in the first place.

Re: The HTTP of VR

#23

Post by binarynate »

> By far the greatest reason to look beyond HTML and HTTP for spatial computing is simply this: these technologies will continue to develop, and will always be driven by their primary purpose: to deliver webpages, websites and static, or marginally dynamic content.

This is a valid point, but I believe there's still enormous potential to innovate on top of WebXR. Since browser engines are open source, it's possible for upstart XR browser apps to add additional features to Gecko or Chromium that push WebXR forward.

Re: The HTTP of VR

#24

Post by binarynate »

binarynate wrote: post #23

> By far the greatest reason to look beyond HTML and HTTP for spatial computing is simply this: these technologies will continue to develop, and will always be driven by their primary purpose: to deliver webpages, websites and static, or marginally dynamic content. This is a valid point, but I believe there's still enormous potential to innovate on top of WebXR. Since browser engines are open source, it's possible fo…

On a related note, I develop libraries for embedding web browsers in Unity 3D (https://vuplex.com), including a library for embedding the Mozilla GeckoView library used by FireFox Reality. I plan to develop a WebXR driver for it, but haven't prioritized it yet. If you're interested in developing a WebXR driver for use with GeckoView (for example, to use with Oculus Quest), you can contact me, and I'll send you my notes from my research:

https://support.vuplex.com/contact

Re: The HTTP of VR

#26

Post by mlac »

kilna wrote: post #22
donmcronald wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inefficiency may not matter if the inconvenienced workers don't get a say. A virtual environment is a corporate dream come true in terms of monitoring. Imagine an AI manager that could monitor workers and virtually walk up behind the ones that aren't being productive. With spatial audio every worker could feel like they're being monitored continuously when it's really just an AI manager monitoring everyone. Just…

If you have a virtual boss so good it can't be easily gamed (it actually knows the worker's job), and also so socially nuanced that people will actually work for it, then you have an AI advanced enough to just do the worker's job and the worker wouldn't be there in the first place.

I would not work at a place with someone virtually breathing down my neck...

Re: The HTTP of VR

#27

Post by jayd16 »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #11
bborud wrote: post #9

Nothing in the blog posting suggests to me you can't use HTTP and Websockets for VR. The understanding of HTTP in the blog posting seems to be rooted in the early 2000s. I don't think the author has much experience in protocol design (it is harder than it looks). It would be more productive to define a layer on top of HTTP/2 so we can leverage a lot of code that already works, rather than having to spend 10-15 years…

WebSockets are not an appropriate medium for VR in the most common use case today: real-time video games. Even if you're not building a video game today and want to do something other-VR esque, I guarantee that you will inevitably end up recreating something the video game industry has done in the last 22-23 years. Everything real-time the author of this article suggests is in the realm of something you would want fo…

Unless you need twitch-shooter level ping times in your web app, websockets/TCP is fine. The rendering is client side after all. Nothing about VR rendering would involve the web stack anyhow.

Http/3 is UDP.

So whats wrong with http exactly?

Re: The HTTP of VR

#28

Post by Bellend »

agar wrote: post #21
Bellend wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about exactly this today! On the right of me I have an oculus quest which I got 2-3 months ago and honestly, it is gathering dust. Just the idea of picking it up and putting it on my face is enough to make me think meh. I did though and I feel like I can't be the only one who finds it really frustrating to the point of making me furious. 1. I started with my eyes at floor level. 2. It moans about a gua…

Jeez, you're slagging the entire value of VR because your specific setup is finicky? Your complaints # 1-3 are a software issue that, while mildly annoying, will ultimately be resolved in an update. Creating a new guardian is literally a 15 second process. Numbers 4-8 are because you choose to use a wireless headset from Oculus as a wired headset through Steam. Of course that's your choice, but the optimized workflow…

I am running a 3k base system (from work that I chose) and a 1k graphics card. Literally saying on the packaging "VR READY" while running Windows 10.

Forgive me that it is "finicky" in my "specific setup".

Paying 80 pound for a wire so I can play titles such as Alyx while being wired seems reasonable to me. I mean, they literally sell you a wire for 1/3 the cost of the headset as a product so there is a market for it and they should provide me with a "Don't ask again" checkbox given that it's the same system but they don't?

Very few things conceptually work well in VR. Sorry. Lets see how you play FIFA for example or literally anything that doesn't involve just arm and head movements that is worth the effort.

I am very aware of the VR market and out of everything you said, the only thing I will accept is "I Expect you to Die" and it's sequel but the rest of those are tired at best bringing nothing new.

Sorry friend, I doubt I will be ringing bells any time soon for the "METAVERSE" based on what I have seen whilst keeping in mind that I am aware that I can play what are essentially bad unity games on my headset without PCVR.

Re: The HTTP of VR

#29

Post by Bellend »

mlac wrote: post #26
kilna wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a virtual boss so good it can't be easily gamed (it actually knows the worker's job), and also so socially nuanced that people will actually work for it, then you have an AI advanced enough to just do the worker's job and the worker wouldn't be there in the first place.

I would not work at a place with someone virtually breathing down my neck...

The good thing with that is just to say "you feel sick" assuming your life got so terrible that you are working in VR with a fake avatar with no legs sitting in front of a fake rendered desk in a fake rendered office whilst the boss has time to watch your every move in VR.

It's comical to the point that I don't know if people here are serious or taking the piss.

Re: The HTTP of VR

#30

Post by edoceo »

raidicy wrote: post #25

Aframe comes to mind. You can have full VR experiences that link just like a Link in HTML to other VR experiences. https://aframe.io/examples/

I thought this post was gonna be about aframe. It's super cool and the docs are good enough that a fool like me could get something neat in a day. Made an aframe HTML with PHP reading from my DB. It's rad.
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