Consider the Lobster (2004) [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Consider the Lobster (2004) [pdf]

#21

Post by akimball » Sun, Dec 05, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

bigchoke wrote: post #15

The morality of meat consumption is something I've struggled with in the past as well. If I'm being completely honest the reason I've never stopped is simply convenience in both macro and micro nutrient availability. This has completely put me off lobster though, won't lie.

Other fat sources are healthier, and other protein sources are less perishable/risky. It is annoying to abstain meat in most restaurants, but this is rapidly improving. My own sweet spot compromise is ovo-lacto-pescatarianism. I eat lots of nuts, and supplement protein when I work out. Sugar being poisonous, I mostly substitute fats for calories. Works for me anyhow, once I got used to it. Maybe insects will be a thing some day

Re: Consider the Lobster (2004) [pdf]

#22

Post by bigchoke » Sun, Dec 05, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

akimball wrote: post #21

bigchoke wrote: post #15

The morality of meat consumption is something I've struggled with in the past as well. If I'm being completely honest the reason I've never stopped is simply convenience in both macro and micro nutrient availability. This has completely put me off lobster though, won't lie.

Other fat sources are healthier, and other protein sources are less perishable/risky. It is annoying to abstain meat in most restaurants, but this is rapidly improving. My own sweet spot compromise is ovo-lacto-pescatarianism. I eat lots of nuts, and supplement protein when I work out. Sugar being poisonous, I mostly substitute fats for calories. Works for me anyhow, once I got used to it. Maybe insects will be a thi…

My hope is cloned meat! Wouldn't mind paying a little extra for it. And you are absolutely right, having a meatless diet is getting progressively easier.

Re: Consider the Lobster (2004) [pdf]

#23

Post by micromacrofoot » Sun, Dec 05, 2021, 9:06 PM UTC

akimball wrote: post #21

bigchoke wrote: post #15

The morality of meat consumption is something I've struggled with in the past as well. If I'm being completely honest the reason I've never stopped is simply convenience in both macro and micro nutrient availability. This has completely put me off lobster though, won't lie.

Other fat sources are healthier, and other protein sources are less perishable/risky. It is annoying to abstain meat in most restaurants, but this is rapidly improving. My own sweet spot compromise is ovo-lacto-pescatarianism. I eat lots of nuts, and supplement protein when I work out. Sugar being poisonous, I mostly substitute fats for calories. Works for me anyhow, once I got used to it. Maybe insects will be a thi…

i’m hoping for insects, cricket flour is a very good source of protein… but very expensive at the current scale

Re: Consider the Lobster (2004) [pdf]

#24

Post by toiletfuneral » Sun, Dec 05, 2021, 10:04 PM UTC

downut wrote: post #13

I loved the writing in this essay but disagree with the conclusion. Let's just say that I doubt that individually wrapped grocery store meats are apex civilization, and no human civilization every thrived without exploiting[1] animals. The exploitation has always been performed across the spectrum of cruelty[2], but the fact of it is incontrovertible. So the essential flaw in the logic, I think, is that, very unusual…

I don't totally understand your position...if the cruelty of wolves / nature justifies your consumption, than why give a shit about the treatment of your food source at all?

If you're trying to minimize cruelty, you wouldn't eat them at all.

Re: Consider the Lobster (2004) [pdf]

#25

Post by cogburnd02 » Sun, Dec 05, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

Re: Consider the Lobster (2004) [pdf]

#26

Post by freediver » Sun, Dec 05, 2021, 11:11 PM UTC

One small step for humankind, but a giant one for lobsters occurred a few days ago when the UK government officially recognized them (together with octopus and crabs) as sentient beings:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/lobsters-octopus-and-crab...

If you do not read the whole original article, read just this excerpt.

"If you’re tilting it from a container into the steaming kettle, the lobster will sometimes try to cling to the container’s sides or even to hook its claws over the kettle’s rim like a person trying to keep from going over the edge of a roof. And worse is when the lobster’s fully immersed. Even if you cover the kettle and turn away, you can usually hear the cover rattling and clanking as the lobster tries to push it off. Or the creature’s claws scraping the sides of the kettle as it thrashes around. The lobster, in other words, behaves very much as you or I would behave if we were plunged into boiling water (with the obvious exception of screaming)."

Switzerland banned boiled them alive a few years ago https://kottke.org/18/02/switzerland-makes-it-illegal-to-boi...

Re: Consider the Lobster (2004) [pdf]

#27

Post by pvaldes » Sun, Dec 05, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

freediver wrote: post #26

One small step for humankind, but a giant one for lobsters occurred a few days ago when the UK government officially recognized them (together with octopus and crabs) as sentient beings: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/lobsters-octopus-and-crab... If you do not read the whole original article, read just this excerpt. "If you’re tilting it from a container into the steaming kettle, the lobster will sometimes try to…

> the UK government officially recognized them as sentient beings

And the real consequences of that joke are?...

Will Mr Johnson reprove the thousands of governments that use seafood to feed their population and avoid famine, suffering and death of millions of people?

Re: Consider the Lobster (2004) [pdf]

#28

Post by freediver » Sun, Dec 05, 2021, 11:31 PM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #27

freediver wrote: post #26

One small step for humankind, but a giant one for lobsters occurred a few days ago when the UK government officially recognized them (together with octopus and crabs) as sentient beings: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/lobsters-octopus-and-crab... If you do not read the whole original article, read just this excerpt. "If you’re tilting it from a container into the steaming kettle, the lobster will sometimes try to…

> the UK government officially recognized them as sentient beings And the real consequences of that joke are?... Will Mr Johnson reprove the thousands of governments that use seafood to feed their population and avoid famine, suffering and death of millions of people?

No one argues there against eating them, but the cruelty of boiling them alive (as they are sentient).

Re: Consider the Lobster (2004) [pdf]

#29

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Dec 05, 2021, 11:46 PM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #27

freediver wrote: post #26

One small step for humankind, but a giant one for lobsters occurred a few days ago when the UK government officially recognized them (together with octopus and crabs) as sentient beings: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/lobsters-octopus-and-crab... If you do not read the whole original article, read just this excerpt. "If you’re tilting it from a container into the steaming kettle, the lobster will sometimes try to…

> the UK government officially recognized them as sentient beings And the real consequences of that joke are?... Will Mr Johnson reprove the thousands of governments that use seafood to feed their population and avoid famine, suffering and death of millions of people?

[deleted]

Re: Consider the Lobster (2004) [pdf]

#30

Post by pvaldes » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 12:13 AM UTC

freediver wrote: post #28

pvaldes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the UK government officially recognized them as sentient beings And the real consequences of that joke are?... Will Mr Johnson reprove the thousands of governments that use seafood to feed their population and avoid famine, suffering and death of millions of people?

No one argues there against eating them, but the cruelty of boiling them alive (as they are sentient).

Do you put think that putting acid into the wounds of a sentient organism is cruel? Then we must jail anybody using vinegar in their lattice also. Plants are sentient organisms!.

How does it feel if we take the previous attempt of emotional manipulation and substitute that for this?

"If you’re tilting it from a container into the steaming kettle, the cabbage will sometimes jump trying to escape its destine or even to hook its leaves over the kettle’s rim like a children trying to keep from going over the edge of a roof with a fluffy kitten in their broken right arm. And worse is when the cabbage is fully immersed. As a Guantanamo prisoner cabbages aren't aquatic plants and can't breath under the water!. Even if you cover the kettle and turn away to not smell its fear, you can usually hear the cover rattling and clanking as the dismembered cabbage dies slowly with a sad why? why?. The brassicacea, in other words, behaves very much as you or I would behave if we were a cabbage disfigured after a thousand years of culture and plunged into boiling water after being chopped in a thousand parts (with the obvious exception of not screaming)."