Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#21

Post by necovek » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:42 AM UTC

Loic wrote: post #3

dmitrygr wrote: post #2

This takes some serious balls and I tip my hat to the organization! Let's see what China does to force them to reconsider

Maybe recognized that women are not objects to be used and abused by people with money and authority. This is sadly something you find everywhere in this world, but at least, in some countries, women can hope to get the justice to investigate fairly. Being a woman in this world is not easy.

That's definitely true for women around the world (including in China).

But while "silencing" is happening throughout the world for victims of sexual crimes (and we should work to stop this), what's happening to Peng is probably unrelated to the type of crime, but rather about who the perpetrator was (a highly-ranked CCP official).

She'd likely see the same fate if she talked about witnessing him do any other crime: it's most telling that not even World-known public figures like Peng can be considered safe from such intimidation.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#22

Post by theplumber » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:43 AM UTC

q-base wrote: post #16

Kudos! As oblivious bystander and no real tennis-knowledge apart from how the game is played, how much pressure will this put on China? How much weight does WTA carry? It will no doubt cause some media coverage no matter the outcome.

I don't see the chinesse people raising against CCP for this. Not even if the olympics are cancelled.

It's well-known that CCP leaders are untouchable in China just like Kim is untouchable in NK.

On the other hand if you look a bit to our politics, how affected was Trump by the rape/harrasment accusations? Certainly a big part of population would still vote for him even if the rape would be recorded. I don't defend China or CCP but we should put things in perspective.

The most disturbing issue in China I believe is the censorship and persecution of the victims.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#23

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:49 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#24

Post by necovek » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:50 AM UTC

dadarecit wrote: post #20

sofixa wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey now, no need to be racist/xenophobic about it. The Chinese government is a terrible regime that commits many atrocities. But China has more than a billion people, most of whom do nothing morally wrong beside being complicit to the regime's crimes by inaction. And as we've seen time and again, that's just what regular people do and will do, as long as their lives aren't getting worse ( e.g. Nazi Germany). Most peo…

This isn’t about racism or xenophobia. This about collectively applying pressure on China, and, more importantly, standing by your ideals. We don’t conduct business with corrupt organizations, and by definition any Chinese company is an organization that is tightly tied to one of worst, scariest regimes that the world ever saw. And remember - it’s never “just business”, not unless you’re a completely corrupt psychopa…

As someone who's been at the receiving end of "applying pressure" (sanctions and bombing), it effectively did nothing to harm those in power, but instead only made innocent people suffer even more.

"Ideals" are not a constant, and each and everyone has their own. There are values we should strive to protect, but disenfranchising whole nation for the minority (not that long ago, USA had a minority government when it comes to popular vote) is exactly the wrong thing to do. There were plenty of businesses that didn't want to work with Trump-supporting companies throughout the world, but none of them went and said we shouldn't work with anyone from the USA.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#25

Post by toyg » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:53 AM UTC

necovek wrote: post #21

Loic wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe recognized that women are not objects to be used and abused by people with money and authority. This is sadly something you find everywhere in this world, but at least, in some countries, women can hope to get the justice to investigate fairly. Being a woman in this world is not easy.

That's definitely true for women around the world (including in China). But while "silencing" is happening throughout the world for victims of sexual crimes (and we should work to stop this), what's happening to Peng is probably unrelated to the type of crime, but rather about who the perpetrator was (a highly-ranked CCP official). She'd likely see the same fate if she talked about witnessing him do any other crime:…

Reaction to a scandal is one of those things where you really see the difference between a democracy, imperfect as it might be, and a tyrannical regime. In democracy, scandal brings disgrace and resignations; the office-holder has demonstrated to be morally unfit and lost his right to lead. In tyranny, you get silence and threats; the boss rules because he is the boss, not because of any moral superiority recognised by the population.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#26

Post by CamperBob2 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:57 AM UTC

theplumber wrote: post #22

q-base wrote: post #16

Kudos! As oblivious bystander and no real tennis-knowledge apart from how the game is played, how much pressure will this put on China? How much weight does WTA carry? It will no doubt cause some media coverage no matter the outcome.

I don't see the chinesse people raising against CCP for this. Not even if the olympics are cancelled. It's well-known that CCP leaders are untouchable in China just like Kim is untouchable in NK. On the other hand if you look a bit to our politics, how affected was Trump by the rape/harrasment accusations? Certainly a big part of population would still vote for him even if the rape would be recorded. I don't defend C…

Trump was a bit of a special case, for whatever reason. No other presidential candidacy would have made it thirty seconds beyond the "Grab 'em by the pussy" scandal.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#27

Post by necovek » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 10:00 AM UTC

q-base wrote: post #16

Kudos! As oblivious bystander and no real tennis-knowledge apart from how the game is played, how much pressure will this put on China? How much weight does WTA carry? It will no doubt cause some media coverage no matter the outcome.

It will probably turn into a non-event in China. As long as other entertainment is available, this is likely to be nothing but a blip.

People do not rise for entertainment, but only when they are seriously affected in their lives. Or when unfairness accumulates enough that they had enough — this will happen at some point in China, if they don't tone it down. But protesting today (and in the past) is a form of luxury: those most in need to protest their treatment usually have the smallest possibility of effectively running one (they are in a constant race to survive).

It's no accident that even throughout history, many protests and revolutions were led/supported by someone from the "elite" (rich, well-educated, plenty of spare time).

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#28

Post by Nemrod67 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 10:09 AM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #18

dadarecit wrote: post #14

[flagged]

Hey now, no need to be racist/xenophobic about it. The Chinese government is a terrible regime that commits many atrocities. But China has more than a billion people, most of whom do nothing morally wrong beside being complicit to the regime's crimes by inaction. And as we've seen time and again, that's just what regular people do and will do, as long as their lives aren't getting worse ( e.g. Nazi Germany). Most peo…

"In any case, no need for outright racial hatred of a whole nation."

Ooof, so many levels of paradoxicality. It's like words have no meaning these days.

- "In any case"? like ANY case? (bit pedantic but still) - "no need", we are discussing the need (- Israel and Saudis and most of the World DOES need to be boycotted (big fan of the Prime Directive)) - "racial", using something that has a problematic definition to describe a billion people that would NOT be the same race with any definition of the word - "hatred" ?, I agree that "to blacklist all Chinese nationals and refuse to deal" is drastic and voluntarily discriminatory, but that is the point. Hatred would be calling for their death, or at least a minimum amount of direct physical harm.

In the end, the USA had and still has an ongoing embargo against Cuba (yes,yes it IS more complicated than that, but we don't call it hatred).

"Most people don't want to risk their lives for noble causes", now THAT is a line of reasoning we can work on.

- Why don't they? - Does that affect their perception of reality? - Does that affect their social relations and information sharing?

Then let us skip from the Yang to the Ying, and then go on about our days. We are oblivious to most of the automatic/subconscious moral reasoning our brain does, the Ghost Not, so we're kinda fucked if no Genius Philosopher/Messiah/Fusion Tech/Aliens come out soon.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#29

Post by dadarecit » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 10:09 AM UTC

necovek wrote: post #24

dadarecit wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t about racism or xenophobia. This about collectively applying pressure on China, and, more importantly, standing by your ideals. We don’t conduct business with corrupt organizations, and by definition any Chinese company is an organization that is tightly tied to one of worst, scariest regimes that the world ever saw. And remember - it’s never “just business”, not unless you’re a completely corrupt psychopa…

As someone who's been at the receiving end of "applying pressure" (sanctions and bombing), it effectively did nothing to harm those in power, but instead only made innocent people suffer even more. "Ideals" are not a constant, and each and everyone has their own. There are values we should strive to protect, but disenfranchising whole nation for the minority (not that long ago, USA had a minority government when it c…

What is this moral relativism? If you want to live in a world where disappearing people for speaking up, heavy handed state censorship and social credit score are all common practices - I suggest you buy one way ticket to China. It’s easy to talk all of this “liberal” bs while sipping your latte at your local Starbucks, but when it comes down to it you know very well what is right and what is wrong: you make the distinction daily (eg by not immigrating to China)

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#30

Post by Nemrod67 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 10:11 AM UTC

sysOpOpPERAND wrote: post #15

jarym wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not white and I don’t believe it’s right that a woman should be politically silenced for speaking out about sexual abuse she encountered. Perhaps not everything is about ‘sticking it’ to your homeland.

agreed. it's wild how fast a potential operative jumps on this thread and gets hostile about people being upset over human rights violations. human rights are not supposed to be just a "westerner" thing, it's human rights not western rights. no person should be treated as subhuman. all people deserve a chance at being free no matter what nation they live in. and if a organization decides they don't want to support a…

I support Human Rights, but our problem then becomes the Power/Violence required to enforce those Human Rights.

We're so fucked in this Clown Timeline(tm)