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Amateur archaeologist in Switzerland unearths 2k-year-old Roman dagger

smithsonianmag.com

21–30 of 52 posts

Re: Amateur archaeologist in Switzerland unearths 2k-year-old Roman dagger

#21
post #17
post #15

Sometimes thought it is a bummer living in the states, less of an opportunity to go find some 1000+ year old relics knowing full well the likelihood of that happening is slim even if I lived in another country with bronze/iron age.

People lived in the US 1000+ years ago, and I feel pretty confident that if you know where to look, relics can still be found.

Yes, but they were not nearly advanced enough for metallurgy and the like. Their artifacts, while no less important, fade away far quicker.

Re: Amateur archaeologist in Switzerland unearths 2k-year-old Roman dagger

#22
post #21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People lived in the US 1000+ years ago, and I feel pretty confident that if you know where to look, relics can still be found.

Yes, but they were not nearly advanced enough for metallurgy and the like. Their artifacts, while no less important, fade away far quicker.

The oldest copper artifacts we have are from the old copper complex around Lake Superior, and more recent metalworking traditions were present throughout much of the Americas.

Re: Amateur archaeologist in Switzerland unearths 2k-year-old Roman dagger

#23
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is another one restored to a better shape [1], close-up [2]. I must admit it doesn't look as perfect as replicas (e.g. in movies), obviously we have much better and precise technology/craftsmanship these days. Probably "as new" may not differ that much from what we restore to. 1. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/archaeology-intern... 2. https://www.archaeology.org/news/8493-200302-germany-roman-d...

I can never get over how real sword (or dagger) handles look so painful to wield. Maybe it's that most of them have lost some leather wrapping or else were just ornamental...but I've seen several that just looked guaranteed to hurt the wielder with each swing.

That's because most of them had leather wrapped hilts and after all these years the leather is long gone leaving just the tang and any decorative embellishments that it had.

Re: Amateur archaeologist in Switzerland unearths 2k-year-old Roman dagger

#24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but they were not nearly advanced enough for metallurgy and the like. Their artifacts, while no less important, fade away far quicker.

The oldest copper artifacts we have are from the old copper complex around Lake Superior, and more recent metalworking traditions were present throughout much of the Americas.

Perhaps you are not deeply familiar with this realm, but trivial (native) copper working is not generally considered metallurgy.

For an amateur but no less correct source, wikipedia provides a good quip for us:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy_in_pre-Columbian_Am...

Archaeological evidence has not revealed metal smelting or alloying of metals by pre-Columbian native peoples north of the Rio Grande; however, they did use native copper extensively.[32]

Which then further cites: George Rapp Jr, Guy Gibbon & Kenneth Ames (1998). Archaeology of Prehistoric Native America: an Encyclopedia. New York: Taylor & Francis. p. 26.

I do not own this book, so I apologize I cannot verify the citation.

Re: Amateur archaeologist in Switzerland unearths 2k-year-old Roman dagger

#25
post #15

Sometimes thought it is a bummer living in the states, less of an opportunity to go find some 1000+ year old relics knowing full well the likelihood of that happening is slim even if I lived in another country with bronze/iron age.

There are likey a lot of dinosaurs still left to be found in the central plains :)

Re: Amateur archaeologist in Switzerland unearths 2k-year-old Roman dagger

#26
post #2

Just once (4th paragraph), the article refers to the object as a "short sword". That strikes me (passably-well-read in some related areas) as very different from "dagger". Any more-expert folks here, to have a sense for how big a deal that is (in the context)?

Most of the complex classifications for swords is a modern development, that's often fairly arbitrary. Maybe short sword isn't the best term, but it is a short-sword

Re: Amateur archaeologist in Switzerland unearths 2k-year-old Roman dagger

#27
post #15

Sometimes thought it is a bummer living in the states, less of an opportunity to go find some 1000+ year old relics knowing full well the likelihood of that happening is slim even if I lived in another country with bronze/iron age.

I always felt there were millions of buried gold in certain parts of America. Buried money, and gold.

Back in the day before banks we buried, or hid our valuables.

There must be stashes of loot buried in people's back yard?

I bought a metal detector years ago, and got bored very quick. I found a quarter, and a pot metal medallion.

Here's a good treasure story.

I knew a lady years ago who went through a rough divorce. Her husband made his wad in the 80's as a drug dealer. When they were fat, and happy, they would whoop it up. This one night they went to the Fairmont Hotel for dinner. She drove home because he was to inebriated.

They lived out at the beach. In a drunken stupor, along with other substances running through his body, he decided to hide his "house money".

He walked out of the house with his pipe filled with $800,000.

He woke up the next day not remembering anything.

She told him what he did.

He rushed out to the back yard, and nothing was disturbed on the ground. He frantically ran around the neighborhood looking for his pipe of money. He went to the beach to no avail.

They were both disappointed.

But it was only part of their money.

Years later they got a divorce.

She told me this story many times. I was excited because I was planning on going to the new owners of the house, and offer free landscaping. It was a long shot, but I love capers.

The big problem was his money bank pipe was pvc, but it was still on my mind.

A few years later, my divorced friend saw the new owners of the beach house in Safeway, and told them the story.

I doubt they found any money, but I will always remember the lost beach/drug money.

(Both passed away, so I feel this treasure story can be told.)

Re: Amateur archaeologist in Switzerland unearths 2k-year-old Roman dagger

#28
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The oldest copper artifacts we have are from the old copper complex around Lake Superior, and more recent metalworking traditions were present throughout much of the Americas.

Perhaps you are not deeply familiar with this realm, but trivial (native) copper working is not generally considered metallurgy. For an amateur but no less correct source, wikipedia provides a good quip for us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy_in_pre-Columbian_Am... Archaeological evidence has not revealed metal smelting or alloying of metals by pre-Columbian native peoples north of the Rio Grande; however, t…

I didn’t realize how easy native copper smelting was until I watched some of those primitive YouTube channels where they make a water filtration system and smelt some copper using a hand made smelter. Linked below if anyone is interested.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=f0BjU20kU5E

Re: Amateur archaeologist in Switzerland unearths 2k-year-old Roman dagger

#29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The oldest copper artifacts we have are from the old copper complex around Lake Superior, and more recent metalworking traditions were present throughout much of the Americas.

Perhaps you are not deeply familiar with this realm, but trivial (native) copper working is not generally considered metallurgy. For an amateur but no less correct source, wikipedia provides a good quip for us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy_in_pre-Columbian_Am... Archaeological evidence has not revealed metal smelting or alloying of metals by pre-Columbian native peoples north of the Rio Grande; however, t…

Native copper working is considered metallurgy in archaeology. If you disagree, feel free to take it up with the archaeometallurgists.

Moreover, purification from ores was done. The so-called copper bells of the southwest were mainly produced from ores rather than native copper and were often alloyed with arsenic or silver to modify the color. The main center of production was paquimé (~180mi west of the Rio Grande), but the cultural area extends well over the border into AZ, NM, and CO.

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