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Ask HN: Is discrimination to promote diversity okay?

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Re: Ask HN: Is discrimination to promote diversity okay?

#21

Post by tomp »

No.

Why is diversity an explicit goal anyways? What is there to gain from "diversity" in particular superficial diversity (skin color, sex) vs intellectual diversity?

> Over the last decade I think there has often been an unspoken preference towards candidates that improve diversity, and I don't have a problem with this.

You're part of the problem. Discrimination is always a problem, even if it's subtle. We (the tech geeks) should have pushed against this from the start, not let it fester and spread.

Re: Ask HN: Is discrimination to promote diversity okay?

#22

Post by rob_c »

captainredbeard wrote: post #2

Your perceptions are accurate and you are not alone in your distaste of modern racism.

Somehow "best candidate for the job" translates far top much into "but they can't perform as well so need help" I've found. I do find myself covering myself whenever I have to say no candidate X is just not as suited for the role and I don't care what their name/gender is.

For reference, I work with some excellent people of various combinations of gender, orientation, creed, background (unis are great for this) and frankly i just put together a big table of pros and cons to make sure every hiring I've been involved with the decision is defensible.

Yes, improving diversity is a pro, but so is 10yr+ of database management. But both get a score of 1 on the table.

Re: Ask HN: Is discrimination to promote diversity okay?

#23

Post by mdorazio »

908B64B197 wrote: post #7

> Candidates that are doing well are literally being ejected from the hiring process because they don't help diversity stats. On more than one occasion I've seen a hiring manager with open roles tell a recruiter to not bother them with any applications from white males. That's illegal per US law. It's also racist, but that particular flavor of racism is illegal. > The nuance has gone in recent years, and it has becom…

Racial discrimination may be illegal, but good luck getting a supportive verdict on that for a white person unless he/she is applying to a majority non-white organization, and even then it would be tough.

In practice we now have affirmative action all over again. The best summary of my viewpoint on that comes from a guest speaker way back when I was in college: “If you think affirmative action is fair, I want you to look around the room, find a white or Asian person, and say to their face that a black student deserves to be in their seat instead, because they’re black.”

Re: Ask HN: Is discrimination to promote diversity okay?

#24

Post by akdor1154 »

(Aus, white male)

Our (not a tech company) enterprise aims to make hiring diversity match applicant diversity, which at first glance sounds reasonable. (I know there are thorns here, please don't reply just to go down that path)

Does anyone have experience with such a system vs more explicit affirmative action as per OP?

As an guy who otherwise tends way towards the lefty socialist end of the spectrum, I would share OP's discomfort in such a situation.

Re: Ask HN: Is discrimination to promote diversity okay?

#26

Post by dudul »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #15
dudul wrote: post #3

It's been my experience as well. I mentioned before on different threads that as a hiring manager I've been told by HR to move all non white male candidates to the phone screen step automatically. Regardless of their resume. It does not make me comfortable at all, and I'll admit, it actually creates a bias in my mind when I do perform the phone screen for these candidates. It's completely counter productive because e…

How is it even legal in America? Can anyone who actually knows a law tell me why they haven't challenged it more?

It is illegal, but i haven't challenged it simply because I would lose my job.

I said "HR" in my comment, because it is effectively what it is, but the real name is "Diversity, Equity and Inclusion team". Their mandate is to increase diversity, and since they also deal with HR duties they have a lot of power.

And to be clear, I was never instructed in writing. It was always during conversations. It would literally be "I say, they say".

Effectively its just a bit of waste of my time (and the applicants) since I'm not yet forced to move them to the on-site, or give them a different take home. It's probably coming eventually though.

Re: Ask HN: Is discrimination to promote diversity okay?

#27

Post by mdorazio »

krapp wrote: post #17
mdorazio wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you did. Those posts make the front page very frequently.

...and they're usually immediately brigaded by commenters claiming that there is no real discrimination against women and POC, only discrimination against white men by woke progressives and feminists and POC blaming them for everything. Outrage is what tends to keep those articles on the front page, not sympathy.

Again, not the case at all in my experience. I feel like you’re reading different posts and comments than most people here.

Re: Ask HN: Is discrimination to promote diversity okay?

#30

Post by yodsanklai »

As a white male (and simply as human being who believes in fairness), I would say I'm concerned with this trend. Positive discrimination for some means negative discrimination for others. I think we should give unprivileged people access to good education, but I'm against quotas.

I used to work in academia in computer science. There were no written rules but the recruiting committees always favoured minorities and women. It was obvious when looking at the stats.

I work now for a big tech company. The policy is that the hiring bar is the same for all candidates, but they're actively looking for candidates from minorities to interview. I'm fine with that approach.

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