Apple changed everything? Yeah, right. • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#21

Post by schmittz » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 8:31 PM UTC

tintin wrote: post #16

nirvana wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every one of those people using Google are doing so on a system running a graphical user interface that Apple invented. In fact, it was Apple that invented the personal computer. Full stop.

You never heard about Xerox did you?

Although, important to note that while Xerox invented GUIs, they were about to trash the project before Apple stepped in and nurtured it. Speculation about what would have happened if they didn't do this is mostly meaningless, but disregarding the promulgation and popularization of GUIs in lieu of crediting only their original inventor is totally unfair.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#22

Post by Gravityloss » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 8:32 PM UTC

At least the pro-Apple point about phones seems very US centric. Or perhaps North America since this magazine is from Canada. Most people in my country do not lease phones. The phone and the data plan are separate. You can change your sim card to a competitor any day you feel like. Even your number stays the same.

I've been mystified at the "Apple changed the world of X" memes but perhaps many of those things weren't common or even known about in the Apple proponent's world before Apple made such a big number about them. But to someone else it might seem ludicrous to say that Apple created this or that. A difference of perspective.

I think their secret is that they suck less than the competition. There's that little extra effort in the design and execution that doesn't give you gray hairs quite so often. If you want to stretch it a bit, Apple could make expensive and yet well selling fine washing machines for example. Most of the time when I do the laundry, I curse the Swedish or Korean ui designers to the lowest hell.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#23

Post by patrickaljord » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 8:32 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #13

patrickaljord wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree though that Google has more impact than Apple. Every student, every high schooler or college student, professor, scientist etc around the world use Google to get access to knowledge, learn and get their job done. I live in Peru where every student use google to get knowledge, I haven't seen anyone with an idevice anywhere here. I think the service Google has done to humanity by making information accessible t…

You write as if Google invented web search. They made it dramatically better. But was it so much better that it changed the world? I am certain it was so much better that they killed off their competition, but somehow I don't think they were so much better that students in Peru wouldn't be using Web Search if Google hadn't come along.

Yes, Web Search was pretty useless before Google, I was there so I can remember (and I guess you probably were there too).

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#24

Post by nirvana » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 8:32 PM UTC

tintin wrote: post #16

nirvana wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every one of those people using Google are doing so on a system running a graphical user interface that Apple invented. In fact, it was Apple that invented the personal computer. Full stop.

You never heard about Xerox did you?

I didn't say Apple invented the mouse or the idea of a winding UI, I said Apple invented the GUI and the personal computer.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#25

Post by dkrich » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 8:33 PM UTC

This is interesting. At first I thought I would disagree with the crux of the article when I read the title, but after reading it I became really convinced that he's actually right. The iPad really hasn't changed anything. It's convenient, but hardly necessary. Same for the iPhone. I think most of Apple's world-changing actually occurred in its first phase.

I'm going to be very interested in watching Apple's next ten years. One thing that I think Apple has always done better than everyone else is software, and as more and more computing power moves away from the desktop, software will become all the more important. I think Apple is going to become more and more software-centric, and it will be interesting to see whether it can stave off competition from licensed platforms when hardware becomes less relevant and margins start to decrease.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#26

Post by kubrickslair » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 8:33 PM UTC

nirvana wrote: post #17

lotharbot wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that none of what Apple brought about in the last decade was "significant" in the same way that sanitation, ..., public health are. They primarily brought combinations of things we were already doing in slick and usable packages. They produced a bunch of great products, no doubt, but I cringe whenever someone calls an iThing "revolutionary".

The GUI is a revolution from the command line. The personal computer is a revolution from the mini-computer and the mainframe. Apple invented both of those. The touch interface is revolutionary, compared to plastic buttons, and Apple invented that. I find it amazing that people can claim, with a straight face that Apple "combined things were were already doing in slick and usable packages" about things that did not e…

Parent and grandparent, take some deep breadths and relax. Please don't quibble. Then watch this rather insightful video titled 'Everything is a Remix' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq5D43qAsVg

And pardon me, for coming off as arrogant, but I hate to see trivial fights here when you are missing the bigger picture.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#27

Post by georgemcbay » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 8:33 PM UTC

nirvana wrote: post #7

I really don't understand the need to denigrate Apple. It almost seems as this spawns from an instinctive respect for the significance that Apple, and Steve Jobs specifically, have actually had. Apple invented the GUI (using some ideas they licensed from Xerox), as part of a project that Steve Jobs led. The NeXT cube inspired the web to some extent and made the first browser much easier to write. Apple invented the t…

"I really don't understand the need to denigrate Apple."

Me either, but I also don't really understand the need to sanctify them, and I don't see how anyone could read this article as a denigration of Apple unless they've already made them sacrosanct in their heads.

Also, I don't think your history of Pixar is really correct. Lucas sold Pixar pretty much solely because he needed the money because of his divorce. It isn't that he thought Pixar making features was not viable, it is that he thought Pixar making features in 1986 was not viable, which clearly it wasn't. What makes you think he would have been opposed to them making features once the world was ready for it? George Lucas, for better or for worse, is one of the biggest proponents of all-digital movie making. One could easily make the case that Pixar features with Lucas as the CEO would have suffered from his meddling in ways they didn't with Jobs as the CEO, but that is purely speculation.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#28

Post by Anechoic » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 8:34 PM UTC

tintin wrote: post #16

nirvana wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every one of those people using Google are doing so on a system running a graphical user interface that Apple invented. In fact, it was Apple that invented the personal computer. Full stop.

You never heard about Xerox did you?

Well the question is "is the GUI that people are using today closer to the PARC GUI or closer to the Mac/Lisa GUI?"

The Apple and Lisa groups were unquestionably influenced by PARC, but a lot of the innovations that are used in today's GUIs come from Apple: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s...

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#29

Post by mayanksinghal » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 8:34 PM UTC

nirvana wrote: post #17

lotharbot wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that none of what Apple brought about in the last decade was "significant" in the same way that sanitation, ..., public health are. They primarily brought combinations of things we were already doing in slick and usable packages. They produced a bunch of great products, no doubt, but I cringe whenever someone calls an iThing "revolutionary".

The GUI is a revolution from the command line. The personal computer is a revolution from the mini-computer and the mainframe. Apple invented both of those. The touch interface is revolutionary, compared to plastic buttons, and Apple invented that. I find it amazing that people can claim, with a straight face that Apple "combined things were were already doing in slick and usable packages" about things that did not e…

GUI: No. [3] Touch: No. [1][2]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch#History [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#History [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_graphical_user_i...

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#30

Post by nirvana » Sun, Aug 28, 2011, 8:36 PM UTC

schmittz wrote: post #21

tintin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never heard about Xerox did you?

Although, important to note that while Xerox invented GUIs, they were about to trash the project before Apple stepped in and nurtured it. Speculation about what would have happened if they didn't do this is mostly meaningless, but disregarding the promulgation and popularization of GUIs in lieu of crediting only their original inventor is totally unfair.

Actually, Xerox invented some important technologies, such as the mouse and the idea of a windowed interface, but this was not the GUI. That was invented by Apple. The xerox interface was more akin to emacs multi-document mode, there was no desktop metaphor, no file/folders organization, no trash can, the menubar was a very different conceptualization, etc.