Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in • Hacker News Board

Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in

#21

Post by butMyside » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 3:43 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #16

mabbo wrote: post #5

Like all industries that can move to remote, I suspect we will soon see a split. Some companies will embrace it, some won't. And that's not to detract from either side of that choice. It's just a choice that has to be made. What's going to be more interesting is what this does to the market rate for labor compensation between these two pools. Simply put: if you want me to be in the city from 9-6 every day, while your…

"you'd better be paying me extra to cover my increased rent" I have some sorry news for Americans thinking this way on this one: you just outsourced yourselves. There are people 2x as smart and who will work 2x as hard for 1/2 the salary among remaining 7 Billion people on this planet and if the bank can hire them instead of you, eventually they will. In some aspects, relationships do matter, so those have face-to-fa…

If you think they can just write off millions of real people you’re deluded.

Only 5% of the US population hunts.

Until society as is collapses, we’re reliant on this logistics system. The powers that be know that.

Workers have all the power. There’s just a 24/7 media blitz saying otherwise.

Look at Linux, Godot, Blender, Jupyter, etc… I was deploying containers as BSD jails in 2005; k8s isn’t new… political corruption obliging us to policing of agency to serve aristocrats is the reason software companies exist, not to produce software. We can do that as a species just fine.

Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in

#22

Post by saiya-jin » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #12

lotsofpulp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they usually believe that every job in their industry is like theirs. It was, for the woman in the article. But no one forces them to be in that industry, other than their desire to earn high wages.

no one forces them to be in that industry, other than their desire to earn high wages Changing career later in life is a risky thing to do, especially if you don't have much in the way of transferable skills. Wanting to avoid poverty isn't quite the same as a "desire to earn high wages". People might know they'd happy on low- or mid-level wages but fearful of ending up with no wages. That's a reasonable concern.

People who work in Manhattan and fly often to London aren't in category of ending in poverty, more like having less paid (but still above average) and less stimulating job.

Of course if one has so messed up life priorities that job and life satisfaction coming from it is their #1 concern, way above raising their own kids, then its another of those sad stories later.

People are fearful of many things, usually not in very rational or smart way. One thing about being a proper adult (and a good parent) is to understand which fears are real and address them, and which are just some self-illusions because folks can't get their mind straight and sort out themselves and their lives (for the lack of better words).

Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in

#23

Post by mrep » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

TrueGeek wrote: post #17

syshum wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the bigger effect is this will create I believe a new round of Off Shoring for a set of jobs that used to be considered immune or at least resistant to off shoring. I could be wrong but your statement of "if you want me to be in the city from 9-6 every day, while your competitor says I can live anywhere and remote in, you'd better be paying me extra to cover my increased rent" will hold true for for the globa…

The companies I've seen adjusting salaries are adjusting for "market rate" of salaries, not CoL. This can result in moving to an area with a higher cost of living and a lower salary.

Pay is usually max(COL, local market rate). You don't need a super high COL if the local market is very competitive, but COL can raise the pay because you still need to convince people to move to your location and most people won't do that if it has an abnormally higher cost of living without a corresponding pay increase.

Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in

#24

Post by krageon » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 3:50 PM UTC

murph-almighty wrote: post #15

macintux wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be interesting to see whether companies can make a hybrid model work reliably. I tend to think that combining remote with on-site leads to worse results, because it’s easy to leave the remote people out of the loop.

The one true hybrid work model for tech (in my opinion anyway) is to just have everyone meet in-person in some cadence for sprint planning/PI planning/whatever your cycle is. Everybody syncs up every so often, and then you leave everyone the fuck alone while they go work. Zoom can handle one-off meetings for pairing or other quick questions, but planning out work/carving out architecture solutions is something better…

The odds are overwhelming that you do not and will never work on the kind of problems where such a minute advantage (if it even exists, which I doubt) makes any kind of difference to the bottom line. Most business related coding is at the end of the day exceedingly trivial. Requiring any sort of on-site time is a thought that belongs in the past.

Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in

#25

Post by bko » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 3:50 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #5

Like all industries that can move to remote, I suspect we will soon see a split. Some companies will embrace it, some won't. And that's not to detract from either side of that choice. It's just a choice that has to be made. What's going to be more interesting is what this does to the market rate for labor compensation between these two pools. Simply put: if you want me to be in the city from 9-6 every day, while your…

> while your competitor says I can live anywhere and remote in

I think most companies still consider your location when determining your pay. Facebook does for instance, even going as far as tracking your IP to make sure you're being honest. If you choose to move to a lower cost city, they'll adjust your wage. Not sure about the other way around.

That'll probably eventually change, but it could be a useful indicator. The median employee that chooses to live in X may be more productive that the median employee that chooses to live in Y. But that's yet to be seen

Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in

#26

Post by sokoloff » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 3:50 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #16

mabbo wrote: post #5

Like all industries that can move to remote, I suspect we will soon see a split. Some companies will embrace it, some won't. And that's not to detract from either side of that choice. It's just a choice that has to be made. What's going to be more interesting is what this does to the market rate for labor compensation between these two pools. Simply put: if you want me to be in the city from 9-6 every day, while your…

"you'd better be paying me extra to cover my increased rent" I have some sorry news for Americans thinking this way on this one: you just outsourced yourselves. There are people 2x as smart and who will work 2x as hard for 1/2 the salary among remaining 7 Billion people on this planet and if the bank can hire them instead of you, eventually they will. In some aspects, relationships do matter, so those have face-to-fa…

The context you trimmed off your quoted line completely changes the meaning of what you quoted.

It was “Simply put: if you want me to be in the city from 9-6 every day, while your competitor says I can live anywhere and remote in,”

Companies requiring employees to be in the city 9-6 aren’t off-shoring and probably aren’t out-sourcing that work.

Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in

#27

Post by krageon » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 3:51 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #16

mabbo wrote: post #5

Like all industries that can move to remote, I suspect we will soon see a split. Some companies will embrace it, some won't. And that's not to detract from either side of that choice. It's just a choice that has to be made. What's going to be more interesting is what this does to the market rate for labor compensation between these two pools. Simply put: if you want me to be in the city from 9-6 every day, while your…

"you'd better be paying me extra to cover my increased rent" I have some sorry news for Americans thinking this way on this one: you just outsourced yourselves. There are people 2x as smart and who will work 2x as hard for 1/2 the salary among remaining 7 Billion people on this planet and if the bank can hire them instead of you, eventually they will. In some aspects, relationships do matter, so those have face-to-fa…

You responded to something the author did not write using a quote taken entirely out of context. While the text of your message is fair and probably true (although outsourcing comes with chunky quality issues that frankly have not been solved yet), it is not at all topical.

Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in

#28

Post by dymk » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 3:53 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #16

mabbo wrote: post #5

Like all industries that can move to remote, I suspect we will soon see a split. Some companies will embrace it, some won't. And that's not to detract from either side of that choice. It's just a choice that has to be made. What's going to be more interesting is what this does to the market rate for labor compensation between these two pools. Simply put: if you want me to be in the city from 9-6 every day, while your…

"you'd better be paying me extra to cover my increased rent" I have some sorry news for Americans thinking this way on this one: you just outsourced yourselves. There are people 2x as smart and who will work 2x as hard for 1/2 the salary among remaining 7 Billion people on this planet and if the bank can hire them instead of you, eventually they will. In some aspects, relationships do matter, so those have face-to-fa…

Having worked for years with overseas contractors, I’m really not too concerned about my job security

Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in

#29

Post by krageon » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

chadash wrote: post #20

While I do think that attitudes towards remote work have fundamentally changed, it'll be interesting to see how things shake out over the next 5-10 years. I suspect that as people start to go into the office more, there will be pressure to do so for your career to advance, in many fields. If your boss's boss works in the office, who is more likely to get a promotion, the person that works from home or the person who…

You can have lunch with someone once a week and still work from home. These kinds of issues are not related, it just requires a different attitude and approach to networking within your own company. No matter what, if you are more social you will make more money. It is not required to be in the office to be perceived well by your peers.

Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in

#30

Post by time_to_smile » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 3:55 PM UTC

chadash wrote: post #20

While I do think that attitudes towards remote work have fundamentally changed, it'll be interesting to see how things shake out over the next 5-10 years. I suspect that as people start to go into the office more, there will be pressure to do so for your career to advance, in many fields. If your boss's boss works in the office, who is more likely to get a promotion, the person that works from home or the person who…

> as people start to go into the office more, there will be pressure to do so for your career to advance

China's "lying flat" movement is already starting to take a hold in the West, and I think as the reality of climate catastrophe and other systemic breakdowns continue to remain visible in the post-pandemic world, there will be an increasingly large number of people that have absolutely zero interest in "career advance".

I wouldn't be surprised if everything you say happens for the subset that is still clinging to the fantasy that career can create meaning. However I think this group will represent an increasingly small number of workers, especially in the new generation arriving to the work for now.