Lessons learned after 5 years of climate tech entrepreneurship • Hacker News Board

Re: Lessons learned after 5 years of climate tech entrepreneurship

#21

Post by grvdrm » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

@corradio - would be interesting to chat with you about your ideas/goals.

I don't work in climate tech but adjacent to it: property insurance. We spend a lot of time thinking about ways to mitigate losses from a variety of natural catastrophes. Some of the increased frequency/severity is increasingly thought to be from climate change. I won't go into that here.

There are a lot of contradictions. Insurers are paid to take risks but increasingly move away from those risks. But the actual events - wildfires, floods, etc. - affect people and businesses every year. Coastal property is at risk from sea-level rise, and sunny-day flooding is common in Miami and other places.

So, I wonder if what you might focus on instead is tech that helps fill some of those gaps. Offer products that help folks buy protection for things that an insurer might not cover unless you give them a lot of cash. Do it more cheaply with tech, if possible. Private flood already exists, but I still think there's a lot of opportunity and runway for other folks in that market. Floods and the other perils are increasingly climate-related problems that people can touch and feel. They cause damage. They upend lives and businesses.

Other folks are tackling wildfire insurance, tornado insurance, and etc. A couple of examples: https://solainsurance.com https://ourkettle.com

Re: Lessons learned after 5 years of climate tech entrepreneurship

#22

Post by m12k » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 10:04 PM UTC

smackeyacky wrote: post #19

m12k wrote: post #8

The core problem here is that emitting carbon doesn't cost the polluters much, so helping them or their customers to avoid it doesn't save them money. It's not a pain point, so the only motivation for them to do anything about it would be altruism/"Look How Green We Are!" CSR marketing. That's why the world desperately needs a carbon tax, so emission goes from being an externality (i.e. somebody else's problem) to be…

A lot of companies think this way, but it isn't necessarily true that excess carbon emissions aren't a financial pain point. Putting aside the implementation of carbon taxes, there are a lot of enterprises out there who could increase their productivity and reduce carbon emission as a side effect. Agriculture in particular would fit in that category but any manufacturer emitting carbon is basically burning something…

> Efficiency and cost savings that just happen to reduce emissions? That's where the focus should be.

Isn't that where the focus has already been for decades? Which has pretty definitely proven itself insufficient for curbing emissions at anywhere near the scales that we need?

Re: Lessons learned after 5 years of climate tech entrepreneurship

#23

Post by sokoloff » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 10:15 PM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #16

sokoloff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an engineering/economic perspective, I totally agree. From a sociology/philosophy perspective, a lot of the West was built on cheap carbon emission. Can we realistically take all that embodied energy that represents our current state and expect/demand that developing nations to pay the same price for carbon as we do, starting now?

> Can we realistically take all that embodied energy that represents our current state and expect/demand that developing nations to pay the same price for carbon as we do, starting now? Yes. Because the alternatives are stark and unwelcoming. And developed nations should enact development sharing to assist at the desire of the developing nations (way more than tokens and pittances). If we want to go far, we have to g…

What’s in it for a developing county to not defect? I think to make this work, you need transfer payments from developed countries to developing countries and to have those payments tied to effective carbon taxation.

For that matter, we probably need transfer payments here in the US. Put another $5/gallon of taxes on gasoline and you smack the working class hard. Do that and give every individual (literally everyone) who files a tax return 1000 gallons worth of the tax. Commit to reducing the gallon subsidy by 25 gallons per year per person and increasing the tax by 5% per year for the next 20 years. Evaluate every 5 years and see how you’re doing towards your goals. At the end, you’re taxing gas about $10/gallon in today’s money and subsidizing everyone $5K (in today’s money) to cover some of the increased costs of goods and transport, but giving a painful signal at the pump to incent minimizing gas consumption.

I’ve thought about those numbers for five minutes. Undoubtedly, better numbers can be chosen, but I think we’re going to have to give money in one motion and take it away in carbon taxes in another in order to be able to implement carbon taxes steep enough to change behavior.

Re: Lessons learned after 5 years of climate tech entrepreneurship

#24

Post by tuatoru » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 10:18 PM UTC

smackeyacky wrote: post #19

m12k wrote: post #8

The core problem here is that emitting carbon doesn't cost the polluters much, so helping them or their customers to avoid it doesn't save them money. It's not a pain point, so the only motivation for them to do anything about it would be altruism/"Look How Green We Are!" CSR marketing. That's why the world desperately needs a carbon tax, so emission goes from being an externality (i.e. somebody else's problem) to be…

A lot of companies think this way, but it isn't necessarily true that excess carbon emissions aren't a financial pain point. Putting aside the implementation of carbon taxes, there are a lot of enterprises out there who could increase their productivity and reduce carbon emission as a side effect. Agriculture in particular would fit in that category but any manufacturer emitting carbon is basically burning something…

Companies use fossil fuels because they have no choice, either because of chemistry or because of the doctrine of shareholder primacy, or because they lack access to credit.

There are no alternatives to carbon-intensive inputs in the offing for many industries. For all of them, efficiency measures require capital investment. Borrowing to install efficiency measures reduces next-quarter returns to stockholders. Companies with low profits have a hard time borrowing.

Yes, it may be a pain point, but it's also a coordination problem (or three).

The cases where efficiency provides a clear benefit? Few and small, on the global scale.

Re: Lessons learned after 5 years of climate tech entrepreneurship

#25

Post by gtomitsuka » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

ulnarkressty wrote: post #12

Since I imagine there are a lot of interested people in this thread: is there a list or an index of companies that one could work at if one was interested to make a difference? Can't really find any on Linkedin. Or maybe the opposite is needed - a list of companies one should be ashamed to work at due to their negative impact on the climate?

Go to jobs under https://lowercarboncapital.com/

Re: Lessons learned after 5 years of climate tech entrepreneurship

#26

Post by coryrc » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #23

tomrod wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can we realistically take all that embodied energy that represents our current state and expect/demand that developing nations to pay the same price for carbon as we do, starting now? Yes. Because the alternatives are stark and unwelcoming. And developed nations should enact development sharing to assist at the desire of the developing nations (way more than tokens and pittances). If we want to go far, we have to g…

What’s in it for a developing county to not defect? I think to make this work, you need transfer payments from developed countries to developing countries and to have those payments tied to effective carbon taxation. For that matter, we probably need transfer payments here in the US. Put another $5/gallon of taxes on gasoline and you smack the working class hard. Do that and give every individual (literally everyone)…

Washington state voted on a smaller version of that, I-732, but it was opposed by half the environmental groups because they couldn't skim money off the top for themselves. So unfortunately it's going to be hard to pass such laws.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Washington_Initiative_7...

Re: Lessons learned after 5 years of climate tech entrepreneurship

#27

Post by stonlyb » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

ulnarkressty wrote: post #12

Since I imagine there are a lot of interested people in this thread: is there a list or an index of companies that one could work at if one was interested to make a difference? Can't really find any on Linkedin. Or maybe the opposite is needed - a list of companies one should be ashamed to work at due to their negative impact on the climate?

https://climatebase.org/ and https://jobs.urban.us/ are two good places to look for higher end and more nuanced career opportunities to help mitigate climate change.

Re: Lessons learned after 5 years of climate tech entrepreneurship

#28

Post by tomrod » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #23

tomrod wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can we realistically take all that embodied energy that represents our current state and expect/demand that developing nations to pay the same price for carbon as we do, starting now? Yes. Because the alternatives are stark and unwelcoming. And developed nations should enact development sharing to assist at the desire of the developing nations (way more than tokens and pittances). If we want to go far, we have to g…

What’s in it for a developing county to not defect? I think to make this work, you need transfer payments from developed countries to developing countries and to have those payments tied to effective carbon taxation. For that matter, we probably need transfer payments here in the US. Put another $5/gallon of taxes on gasoline and you smack the working class hard. Do that and give every individual (literally everyone)…

Since the game is long term the strategy space is much more open for punishment and incentive creation.

Long term existence can be a motivating force, but you have to get the citizens to support solving the issue.

Re: Lessons learned after 5 years of climate tech entrepreneurship

#29

Post by sokoloff » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:17 PM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #28

sokoloff wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s in it for a developing county to not defect? I think to make this work, you need transfer payments from developed countries to developing countries and to have those payments tied to effective carbon taxation. For that matter, we probably need transfer payments here in the US. Put another $5/gallon of taxes on gasoline and you smack the working class hard. Do that and give every individual (literally everyone)…

Since the game is long term the strategy space is much more open for punishment and incentive creation. Long term existence can be a motivating force, but you have to get the citizens to support solving the issue.

Maybe. We’ve made other changes that didn’t have nearly universal support before (Emancipation, Civil Rights acts, forced integration of schools, women’s suffrage, and probably many others).

Sure, I’d prefer to wait a few years if that waiting would bring along willing participation. If we think it would only bring a larger number on the calendar and a slightly worse atmospheric carbon surplus, I’m not as inclined towards patiently explaining this again.

Re: Lessons learned after 5 years of climate tech entrepreneurship

#30

Post by tppiotrowski » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:50 PM UTC

“In the end, you can’t fix the world if you’re not in a positive mindset.”

I can see how the shame of consumption can slow innovation. Especially when it gets to the point that you’re analyzing the best way to ship a laptop to your office to even get started...

Enjoyed the advice on burnout. Many tech companies now recruit on mission statements as much as on pay and when you fail to live up to that mission your employees will rethink staying put.