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Megaprocessor – A micro-processor built large (2016)

megaprocessor.com

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Re: Megaprocessor – A micro-processor built large (2016)

#21

Post by adrianN »

garaetjjte wrote: post #17
orbital-decay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, of course not. The PC acts as a terminal/controller for this machine. Running Windows 7 on a 8 KHz CPU is impossible, even on a x86-compatible one. WinXP has been shown to run on an extremely underclocked 8 MHz Pentium CPU, booting in half an hour: https://winhistory.de/more/386/xpmini_en.htm

If you have enough RAM and patience, you can emulate anything even on small CPU. eg. https://dmitry.gr/?r=05.Projects&proj=07.%20Linux%20on%208bi...

30,000 minutes are more than 20 days. That's a lot of patience to boot Windows.

Re: Megaprocessor – A micro-processor built large (2016)

#23

Post by galcerte »

temeritatis wrote: post #7

I often wondered i could build some sort of general computing machine if we were pushed back to the dark ages or something. I guess you have to define exactly at what level of technological achievements we were pushed back to. But with the knowledge we have today, and without ICs (or advanced manufacturing facilities) and only "simple electronics" (whatever that would be) if this would be possible. Fun stuff to think…

In that case, if you want a somewhat entertaining very-high-level overview of what would need to be done, then there's a manga that showed this off a few chapters ago, it's called Dr. Stone. What stuck with me the most was that the purity needed for the silicon used in processors was absurdly high, so much so that they couldn't quite do that just yet, so they made a processor out of parametrons and used magnetic core memory. I knew semiconductors had to be very pure, but it was a bit discouraging to realize just how much effort it would take if you started from zero.

Re: Megaprocessor – A micro-processor built large (2016)

#24

Post by userbinator »

temeritatis wrote: post #7

I often wondered i could build some sort of general computing machine if we were pushed back to the dark ages or something. I guess you have to define exactly at what level of technological achievements we were pushed back to. But with the knowledge we have today, and without ICs (or advanced manufacturing facilities) and only "simple electronics" (whatever that would be) if this would be possible. Fun stuff to think…

Babbage's analytical engine comes close, and doesn't even use electricity.

Re: Megaprocessor – A micro-processor built large (2016)

#25

Post by jhgb »

temeritatis wrote: post #7

I often wondered i could build some sort of general computing machine if we were pushed back to the dark ages or something. I guess you have to define exactly at what level of technological achievements we were pushed back to. But with the knowledge we have today, and without ICs (or advanced manufacturing facilities) and only "simple electronics" (whatever that would be) if this would be possible. Fun stuff to think…

On that note, I was wondering on several occasions whether it would have been technologically possible to build neon lamp logic circuits in Babbage's time. Aside from the problem of building an air liquifier a few decades early, I don't see any really major technological hurdles there. That would have nicely solved his problems with mechanical manufacturing...

Re: Megaprocessor – A micro-processor built large (2016)

#26

Post by [deleted] »

galcerte wrote: post #23
temeritatis wrote: post #7

I often wondered i could build some sort of general computing machine if we were pushed back to the dark ages or something. I guess you have to define exactly at what level of technological achievements we were pushed back to. But with the knowledge we have today, and without ICs (or advanced manufacturing facilities) and only "simple electronics" (whatever that would be) if this would be possible. Fun stuff to think…

In that case, if you want a somewhat entertaining very-high-level overview of what would need to be done, then there's a manga that showed this off a few chapters ago, it's called Dr. Stone. What stuck with me the most was that the purity needed for the silicon used in processors was absurdly high, so much so that they couldn't quite do that just yet, so they made a processor out of parametrons and used magnetic core…

[deleted]

Re: Megaprocessor – A micro-processor built large (2016)

#27

Post by simp-in-a-box »

galcerte wrote: post #23
temeritatis wrote: post #7

I often wondered i could build some sort of general computing machine if we were pushed back to the dark ages or something. I guess you have to define exactly at what level of technological achievements we were pushed back to. But with the knowledge we have today, and without ICs (or advanced manufacturing facilities) and only "simple electronics" (whatever that would be) if this would be possible. Fun stuff to think…

In that case, if you want a somewhat entertaining very-high-level overview of what would need to be done, then there's a manga that showed this off a few chapters ago, it's called Dr. Stone. What stuck with me the most was that the purity needed for the silicon used in processors was absurdly high, so much so that they couldn't quite do that just yet, so they made a processor out of parametrons and used magnetic core…

Wow, no idea Dr. Stone was that hardcore. That sounds watchable!

edit: didn’t pay attention that you were talking about the manga. That makes more sense. Sounds highly readable!

Re: Megaprocessor – A micro-processor built large (2016)

#28

Post by colonwqbang »

garaetjjte wrote: post #17
orbital-decay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, of course not. The PC acts as a terminal/controller for this machine. Running Windows 7 on a 8 KHz CPU is impossible, even on a x86-compatible one. WinXP has been shown to run on an extremely underclocked 8 MHz Pentium CPU, booting in half an hour: https://winhistory.de/more/386/xpmini_en.htm

If you have enough RAM and patience, you can emulate anything even on small CPU. eg. https://dmitry.gr/?r=05.Projects&proj=07.%20Linux%20on%208bi...

It has only 256 bytes of RAM

Re: Megaprocessor – A micro-processor built large (2016)

#29

Post by sudosysgen »

adrianN wrote: post #19
52-6F-62 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point! I used to play that same thought experiment with more basic utilities like my toaster with it's various settings and electronic controllers. Then I was given a Dualit. No more philosophical dilemmas! Kidding aside, it's always staggering how far removed we really are from operating on (humanly) first principles. Humbling.

There are many people on the internet researching how basic things can be made in a low-tech fashion. I particularly enjoy https://simplifier.neocities.org/ for example. But if you read those blogs you still notice the mind boggling height of the giants whose shoulders the bloggers stand on. Having access to simple chemicals like acids or various salts for example is huge. I wouldn't even know where to start if I had…

The Dr. Stone manga provides an interesting perspective on how you'd bootstrap that chemistry kit.

Re: Megaprocessor – A micro-processor built large (2016)

#30

Post by kens »

temeritatis wrote: post #7

I often wondered i could build some sort of general computing machine if we were pushed back to the dark ages or something. I guess you have to define exactly at what level of technological achievements we were pushed back to. But with the knowledge we have today, and without ICs (or advanced manufacturing facilities) and only "simple electronics" (whatever that would be) if this would be possible. Fun stuff to think…

Looking historically, you have a bunch of options for a pre-IC computer; there were lots of pre-IC computers. Transistors, of course, or vacuum tubes give you a useful computer. You can build a computer from relays, but the performance is pretty bad. Memory is also very important. Magnetic core memory is the way to go if you don't have ICs. None of this is going to help you if you went to the dark ages.

As far as mechanical devices, mechanical calculating machines didn't arise until the late 1600s and weren't reliable for many years. It's unlikely that you'd be capable of building a mechanical computer until the industrial revolution. Note that Babbage was unsuccessful in building his machines even in the late 1800s.

If your goal is to build a Turing-complete machine of some sort, even if totally impractical, you could push the date back a lot. But that would be more of a curiosity than a useful computer.

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