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Divorce does funny things

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Re: Divorce does funny things

#21

Post by edmundsauto »

Waterluvian wrote: post #12
bobsmooth wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, "willing" is inaccurate. "Forced", either through necessity or violence, is the better word.

I support that sentiment. I don’t think anyone truly chooses to do these bad jobs. Perhaps they apply a fake veneer of choice, manliness, romanticism. But ultimately I can only conclude that people do it for lack of a better option.

Many of the (mostly men) people who do this work do so because it’s part of their identity and culture. I would recommend more conversations with folks who do the hard labor.that’s why coal miners vote in ways that don’t make sense!

The problem is not the job itself. Many people are fulfilled by working hard dangerous jobs. The problem is the compensation and status.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#22

Post by s5300 »

pcbro141 wrote: post #11

Decline of marriage, high divorce rate, increasing single parent rate, inflation/wage stagnation, young men increasingly 'opting out' and sexless, doesn't sound good for the future. The relationship market in the West seems horribly broken, not good at all if you want a thriving happy society.

Relationship market seems like it's the best it's ever been, from a standpoint of equality, that is.

COVID unfortunately brought domestic violence rates up, but I wouldn't lump that in with the generality of "relationship market", it's a more serious & specific issue.

edit: Ahh, by the time I finish posting you've come and brought up the "nuclear family"

Hard to imagine anything good will come from a discussion hinging on that.

Anecdata: the males I've personally seem "opting out" have major personal issues and are honestly dangerous to any potential partners, mentally and physically. I don't feel much for them except for wishing the U.S. had better and more affordable healthcare so they could get some mental healthcare. But once again - anecdata - these also aren't the types to seek mental healthcare. Oh well.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#23

Post by williamtrask »

anonporridge wrote: post #15
pcbro141 wrote: post #11

Decline of marriage, high divorce rate, increasing single parent rate, inflation/wage stagnation, young men increasingly 'opting out' and sexless, doesn't sound good for the future. The relationship market in the West seems horribly broken, not good at all if you want a thriving happy society.

Unless a declining population is good for future prosperity. If you force a continuation of replacement rate births or even growth, but most of those humans are economically worthless, you'll drag down your whole society.

That’s an unnecessarily dark idea. There’s no requirement that widespread unhappiness is the driving force behind preventing overpopulation. Also the purpose of a human life is not economic output.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#24

Post by pyuser583 »

Life insurance policies often do cover suicide.

There’s usually a certain amount of time that has to pass between the start of the policy - two years in the case of my old policy.

But the “life insurance not covering suicide” is no longer true.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#25

Post by Lammy »

pcbro141 wrote: post #11

Decline of marriage, high divorce rate, increasing single parent rate, inflation/wage stagnation, young men increasingly 'opting out' and sexless, doesn't sound good for the future. The relationship market in the West seems horribly broken, not good at all if you want a thriving happy society.

> not good at all if you want a thriving happy society

You might be interested to read the report commissioned by Congress in 1970 from the Commission on Population Growth and the American Future, chaired by John D. Rockefeller Ⅲ: https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED050960.pdf#page=10

Also known as "WTF Happened in 1971?" https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

Re: Divorce does funny things

#26

Post by S_A_P »

mrsmee89 wrote: post #9

As a divorced man, I can attest to this wholeheartedly. There's an energy a man gets when you're building a family that helps motivate through the struggle. When you get divorced, especially when kids are involved, there's an expectation in our society (court system, social pressure, etc) to continue life as if that energy still exists, it simply doesn't. It's maddening. Breaking up a family is lose-lose. There are n…

Well said. I’m a decade past my divorce and it still causes anguish. I have two kids and while I play by the rules and encourage the kids to be close to both myself and their mother. Their mom is on man in her life number 6/husband 2. There was a period of time that she told the kids to call me dad and the step dad “super dad”. She nearly ran me over twice without warning as I jogged. I’ve never contested child support audits despite my income halving recently. Even knowing what I went through I’m not sure I would have made a different choice. My main worry is my kids and making sure they are ok is pretty much the reason I wake up in the morning. I certainly don’t claim to be blameless in the divorce but having my ex and her mothers psychiatrist break protocol and tell me without charging me that I should leave along with refusing to see them anymore raised some flags. Mental illness got worse From there.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#27

Post by me_im_counting »

mrsmee89 wrote: post #9

As a divorced man, I can attest to this wholeheartedly. There's an energy a man gets when you're building a family that helps motivate through the struggle. When you get divorced, especially when kids are involved, there's an expectation in our society (court system, social pressure, etc) to continue life as if that energy still exists, it simply doesn't. It's maddening. Breaking up a family is lose-lose. There are n…

Are they? At least among wealthy men, it seems much more common for them to remarry and make a brand new second family while the ex wife is left doing most things for the first set of kids. Plus, it’s significantly more common for men to leave their wives when their wives get diagnosed with cancer than vice versa.

IMO, divorce sucks worst for whoever is the most conscientious person and invested in the family, regardless of gender.

PS - I am divorced too (no kids though) - sorry to hear you’re going through that.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#28

Post by pishpash »

Lammy wrote: post #25
pcbro141 wrote: post #11

Decline of marriage, high divorce rate, increasing single parent rate, inflation/wage stagnation, young men increasingly 'opting out' and sexless, doesn't sound good for the future. The relationship market in the West seems horribly broken, not good at all if you want a thriving happy society.

> not good at all if you want a thriving happy society You might be interested to read the report commissioned by Congress in 1970 from the Commission on Population Growth and the American Future, chaired by John D. Rockefeller Ⅲ: https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED050960.pdf#page=10 Also known as "WTF Happened in 1971?" https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

Birth control?

Re: Divorce does funny things

#29

Post by pcbro141 »

s5300 wrote: post #22
pcbro141 wrote: post #11

Decline of marriage, high divorce rate, increasing single parent rate, inflation/wage stagnation, young men increasingly 'opting out' and sexless, doesn't sound good for the future. The relationship market in the West seems horribly broken, not good at all if you want a thriving happy society.

Relationship market seems like it's the best it's ever been, from a standpoint of equality, that is. COVID unfortunately brought domestic violence rates up, but I wouldn't lump that in with the generality of "relationship market", it's a more serious & specific issue. edit: Ahh, by the time I finish posting you've come and brought up the "nuclear family" Hard to imagine anything good will come from a discussion hingi…

> Ahh, by the time I finish posting you've come and brought up the "nuclear family"

> Hard to imagine anything good will come from a discussion hinging on that.

Genuine question, why does it sound like you find me advocating for a 2 parent household almost offensive? Is it because you don't believe any of the data about kids raised in 2 parent households is valid? From my perspective, I genuinely don't understand your reaction here at all because I thought this was a generally accepted fact in psychology/sociology.

I'm just asking out of curiosity for your perspective, I promise I'm not baiting you into a debate :)

Re: Divorce does funny things

#30

Post by jimmaswell »

s5300 wrote: post #22
pcbro141 wrote: post #11

Decline of marriage, high divorce rate, increasing single parent rate, inflation/wage stagnation, young men increasingly 'opting out' and sexless, doesn't sound good for the future. The relationship market in the West seems horribly broken, not good at all if you want a thriving happy society.

Relationship market seems like it's the best it's ever been, from a standpoint of equality, that is. COVID unfortunately brought domestic violence rates up, but I wouldn't lump that in with the generality of "relationship market", it's a more serious & specific issue. edit: Ahh, by the time I finish posting you've come and brought up the "nuclear family" Hard to imagine anything good will come from a discussion hingi…

> Relationship market seems like it's the best it's ever been, from a standpoint of equality, that is.

What makes you say this? Last I heard the trend of it getting harder and harder for men has been continuing. When one side has to go crazy going to the gym and making themselves interesting and whatever to stand out while the other side just has to put one blurry picture with no text on any dating site to get inundated with suitors, how can you call that equal?

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