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Democrats want to give a tax cut to the top%, 6x bigger than any other bracket

businessinsider.com

21–30 of 45 posts

Re: Democrats want to give a tax cut to the top%, 6x bigger than any other bracket

#21
I'm sort of at the point where I wouldn't mind news headlines and articles that reported statistics being required to report a disclosure table like loans are required to, which shows total amount, percentage change, and multiples of amount between the things being compared.

Then at least even if they make stupid cross comparisons in titles, people would know they can quickly look inside for a breakdown of the reality which can't be confused by wording.

Re: Democrats want to give a tax cut to the top%, 6x bigger than any other bracket

#23
post #10

Is there any reason there shouldn't be a cap on state and local tax deductions (SALT) from the federal tax, apart from it affect people more in blue (high cost) states? Why should the federal government subsidize high state and local taxes? It obviously most benefits the wealthy who are well above the current SALT cap. The standard deduction is already pretty high, ~25k for married couple. And if you're paying that m…

$25k in California is very different from $25k in Oklahoma. For this to be fair it would need to be adjusted for the COL in each region.

Regions with higher taxes also tend to have higher populations and more dense populations and provide more social services. And regions with more dense populations also tend to vote for one party over the other. It was pretty clear to most that this was aimed solely at punishing one party over the other, which to me is enough to support its repeal.

But beyond all that, do we support double taxation or not? I think most people would say it's unfair to tax someone on income they derived no value from (beyond the social services aspect).

Re: Democrats want to give a tax cut to the top%, 6x bigger than any other bracket

#24
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about that for a moment, why might that be a bad idea?

I don’t want to get into politics on HN, but I’ll say it’s a bad idea because many people don’t want to pay another penny in taxes. And this isn’t about my personal politics. If you want a tax because society will benefit, great - many of us are for it. But that’s not the debate. If the government was efficient or effective at spending, then it’s just a question of, “well, do we agree spending on X benefits our commu…

Having spent time in the public sector...

...it's amazing how much of this is caused by local and state governments being unable to afford:

1. Qualified talent

2. Equipment

3. Effective professional services

"The beatings will continue until morale improves" or, perhaps more aptly, "funding will trickle until programs improve."

a.k.a putting the cart before the horse.

I get that this isn't uniform across the board, but anecdotally, it's been true everywhere I've been. What's more appropriate, at least to me, is to include temporary funding that renews on meeting certain OKRs.

Re: Democrats want to give a tax cut to the top%, 6x bigger than any other bracket

#25

I'm surprised Democrats haven't made taking a loan against an asset a taxible capital-gains event.

There's a more general proposal to tax unrealized capital gains, for the wealthy. It came up in funding negotiations for this bill but wasn't ever in a draft IIRC.

I've posted several times that this is a dumb idea, because if they tax unrealized capital gains every year, they're also going to have to issue tax credits for capital losses every year. Which works out to being the same thing as taxing capital gains when the asset is sold.

I have no problem with them eliminating the stepped-up basis on inheritance of investments. IMO, the only reason they do this is because if you inherit stocks from your great grandmother, who knows what she paid for them? But with today's computer systems, tracking the basis through generations should not be a huge deal.

Re: Democrats want to give a tax cut to the top%, 6x bigger than any other bracket

#26

What is the SALT deduction?

If you earn $100k and pay $10k in State Tax, your Federal Taxable income is reduced by that amount to $90k (i.e. a $10k deduction). So you effectively pay less Federal Tax.

The SALT cap put a limit on how much you can deduct. So folks paying more State Tax than the limit that previously benefited from deducting that amount could only deduct up to the limit.

Re: Democrats want to give a tax cut to the top%, 6x bigger than any other bracket

#27
post #18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about that for a moment, why might that be a bad idea?

> Think about that for a moment, why might that be a bad idea? This isn't obvious to me. Can you help me understand?

Because it’s a loan that carries interest charges already, not income. Do you want to totally kill business investment?

Re: Democrats want to give a tax cut to the top%, 6x bigger than any other bracket

#28
post #10

Is there any reason there shouldn't be a cap on state and local tax deductions (SALT) from the federal tax, apart from it affect people more in blue (high cost) states? Why should the federal government subsidize high state and local taxes? It obviously most benefits the wealthy who are well above the current SALT cap. The standard deduction is already pretty high, ~25k for married couple. And if you're paying that m…

One argument I've heard beyond "double-taxation" is that it allows state and local governments to more easily set higher income and property taxes than they otherwise could.

The deductibility of state and local taxes has been around since income tax was created in 1913, and almost all state and local taxes have passed under that old framework. That's not to say it has to be done that way forever.

Re: Democrats want to give a tax cut to the top%, 6x bigger than any other bracket

#29
post #20

> An analysis from the Tax Policy Center on the latest version of the bill shows that, while nearly all Americans making under $1 million will get a tax cut, those on the upper end of that spectrum — the merely rich making between $500,000 and $1 million — will see a much bigger dollar-value tax cut than the bulk of the working and middle class So everyone under 1 million gets a tax cut, but the 500k-1m range sees a…

Bigger cut depending on how you look at it. They are very careful to say bigger total dollar value, which is what you would expect when a percentage is applied to a larger base number. My guess (based on the graphs) is that it's extremely close percentage wise, even if slightly lower then the immediately preceding bracket. I skimmed after a bit though, so I'll go back and look closer.

Edit: yeesh, phone keyboard really made a mess of that originally.

Re: Democrats want to give a tax cut to the top%, 6x bigger than any other bracket

#30
post #18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about that for a moment, why might that be a bad idea?

> Think about that for a moment, why might that be a bad idea? This isn't obvious to me. Can you help me understand?

If you get into financial difficulty and need to remortgage your house technically you would have to pay capital gains on it with this rule.

Which punishes poor people for being poor.

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