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My WhatsApp Security code changed, with no login or logout

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21–29 of 29 posts

Re: My WhatsApp Security code changed, with no login or logout

#21

Security codes ("safety numbers" on Signal) are supposed to provide you with a means to detect malicious MITM attacks. Since most users don't check their contacts' numbers out-of-band -- or even verify their own codes regularly -- it's kind of a probabilistic mechanism. In theory these checks should dissuade attacks on the system, but in practice does it? This post illustrates one of the many reasons the solution is…

Yes, a system with so many false positives will be ignored by users. Warnings should only occur if a genuine problem is detected. Ideally we'd all use an append-only merkle log ala certificate transparency to lookup public keys. This is much harder to MITM, and you can do lookups over onion routing to make it even harder. Of course, if your identifiers have PII (like phone numbers in Signal and Whatsapp) this is not…

Oh, a fellow fan of transparency logs!

I'd love to hear what you think about a log a few colleagues and I have designed. We've tried to get to the essence of transparency logging. It's a minimalistic design, and it doesn't require trusting the log operator.

www.sigsum.org

Re: My WhatsApp Security code changed, with no login or logout

#22

Security codes ("safety numbers" on Signal) are supposed to provide you with a means to detect malicious MITM attacks. Since most users don't check their contacts' numbers out-of-band -- or even verify their own codes regularly -- it's kind of a probabilistic mechanism. In theory these checks should dissuade attacks on the system, but in practice does it? This post illustrates one of the many reasons the solution is…

Yes, a system with so many false positives will be ignored by users. Warnings should only occur if a genuine problem is detected. Ideally we'd all use an append-only merkle log ala certificate transparency to lookup public keys. This is much harder to MITM, and you can do lookups over onion routing to make it even harder. Of course, if your identifiers have PII (like phone numbers in Signal and Whatsapp) this is not…

The system you propose is exactly the design of Keybase! In fact, KB even supports proofs of real-world identities that are themselves signed on the Merkle tree, automatically periodically checked by clients. (However, this still leads to tons of false positives...)

Re: My WhatsApp Security code changed, with no login or logout

#23

Yeah nobody really cares about those… people get new phones or, (in case of GPG) forget to renew their certificates so often that people just ignore this stuff. This is a problem that is as old as public key cryptography and nobody really solved it since… uhhh the 90s? I don’t know

See "Why Johnny Can't Encrypt", 2005: http://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~tygar/papers/Why_Johnny_Can...

Also see "Why Johnny Still Can't Encrypt", 2015: https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.22...

Also see "Why Johnny Still, Still Can't Encrypt", 2016: https://arxiv.org/abs/1510.08555

Re: My WhatsApp Security code changed, with no login or logout

#24
post #4

Readable link on mobile: https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsapp/comments/qmwtyn/my_securit...

old reddit is always better than new one, even on mobile

I disagree. It's unreadable on mobile. I also prefer new Reddit on desktop.

Re: My WhatsApp Security code changed, with no login or logout

#26
post #23

Yeah nobody really cares about those… people get new phones or, (in case of GPG) forget to renew their certificates so often that people just ignore this stuff. This is a problem that is as old as public key cryptography and nobody really solved it since… uhhh the 90s? I don’t know

See "Why Johnny Can't Encrypt", 2005: http://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~tygar/papers/Why_Johnny_Can... Also see "Why Johnny Still Can't Encrypt", 2015: https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.22... Also see "Why Johnny Still, Still Can't Encrypt", 2016: https://arxiv.org/abs/1510.08555

The first paper is the landmark and did a good job of identifying the root problem. The second two are just repeats of the first with no added insight and can be safely skipped.

It is kind of depressing that so many years have passed and we are still confusing people with impossible to understand stuff as per the current WhatApp example.

Re: My WhatsApp Security code changed, with no login or logout

#28
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a system with so many false positives will be ignored by users. Warnings should only occur if a genuine problem is detected. Ideally we'd all use an append-only merkle log ala certificate transparency to lookup public keys. This is much harder to MITM, and you can do lookups over onion routing to make it even harder. Of course, if your identifiers have PII (like phone numbers in Signal and Whatsapp) this is not…

The system you propose is exactly the design of Keybase! In fact, KB even supports proofs of real-world identities that are themselves signed on the Merkle tree, automatically periodically checked by clients. (However, this still leads to tons of false positives...)

Yep keybase was great, apart from being closed source, centralized and not having a viable business model.

Re: My WhatsApp Security code changed, with no login or logout

#29

Not directly related to the article, but the other day I saw the "camera in use" indicator in the Android status bar while WhatsApp was open. The camera usage history showed it was being used by WhatsApp at the time (not another app), but I wasn't making use of any feature that required a camera at that time (browsing contacts). I doubt it was nefarious. Anyone know why something like this would happen? Is there some…

> I doubt it was nefarious Given they're a Facebook company, I'm not sure why you'd doubt it was nefarious

Didn't instagram get caught keeping the camera open recently?
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