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NFTs over 10k, you go to jail

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Re: NFTs over 10k, you go to jail

#21

Post by nuerow »

mattdesl wrote: post #17
nuerow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's an incredibly ignorant remark. Right, that must be why this is a discussion on the IRS requiring people to report transactions to tackle money laundering, and how that justifies protests, and not art history. > Art has been one of the more prominent uses of NFTs that emerged this year. "Art" has been the pretext. The prominent use of NFTs is to perform transactions. Don't be disingenuous, and tone down the a…

Not sure how this is gaslighting, arrogant, or disingenuous. You may not agree with this use of the technology, but it does not mean the behaviour is primarily criminal. It can be likened to a traditional art market, where artists attempt to earn revenue for their work by distributing and selling limited signed editions, but in this case the signature is cryptographically verified.

> You may not agree with this use of the technology, but it does not mean the behaviour is primarily criminal.

Again, don't be disingenuous. You're literally commenting on a post on how the IRS requires transactions over 10k to be reported with the goal of fighting money laundering, and how that raises "alarm bells". This is not about paying artists. This is not about paying taxes. This is about a requirement to report potentially illegal transactions within the scope of money laundering.

Trying to spin this to be about art and artists is profoundly disingenuous, and launching ad hominem attacks on those who point out this fact just shows how weak are your arguments.

Re: NFTs over 10k, you go to jail

#22

Post by nuerow »

thrashh wrote: post #20
0xdeadb00f wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only ever seen artists make and sell their art as NFTs. Which is why I asked. Because I'm confused as to why an artist would do that. I understand it's a massive scam but I didn't get why prominent artists I follow are getting into it in the first place.

The original artist doesn’t get any money if a physical version gets resold either. NFTs could theoretically actually allow artists to get a cut of any future sales because of its basis in smart contracts. Of course, NFTs can be used for money laundering as well but art is presumably already used for that purpose.

> Of course, NFTs can be used for money laundering as well but art is presumably already used for that purpose.

Modern art is primarily driven for the purpose of money laundering.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/business/art-money-launde...

NFTs are just a new way to conduct the same money laundering schemes which, loopholes and the lack of regulation, are easier to hide and exploit.

This recent change adopted by the IRS is just a way to address that loophole, and lo and behold it's spun as a deadly attack on the purposefulness of the entire technology.

Re: NFTs over 10k, you go to jail

#23

Post by mattdesl »

nuerow wrote: post #21
mattdesl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how this is gaslighting, arrogant, or disingenuous. You may not agree with this use of the technology, but it does not mean the behaviour is primarily criminal. It can be likened to a traditional art market, where artists attempt to earn revenue for their work by distributing and selling limited signed editions, but in this case the signature is cryptographically verified.

> You may not agree with this use of the technology, but it does not mean the behaviour is primarily criminal. Again, don't be disingenuous. You're literally commenting on a post on how the IRS requires transactions over 10k to be reported with the goal of fighting money laundering, and how that raises "alarm bells". This is not about paying artists. This is not about paying taxes. This is about a requirement to repo…

I'm literally commenting on a post that states:

> NFTs have absolutely nothing to do with artists or art.

Suggesting that such a remark is ignorant—i.e. lacking knowledge—is not ad hominem. The arguments in favour of this usage of the technology are quite well laid out in the articles I linked, should you choose to read them.

Re: NFTs over 10k, you go to jail

#24

Post by theknocker »

nuerow wrote: post #21
mattdesl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how this is gaslighting, arrogant, or disingenuous. You may not agree with this use of the technology, but it does not mean the behaviour is primarily criminal. It can be likened to a traditional art market, where artists attempt to earn revenue for their work by distributing and selling limited signed editions, but in this case the signature is cryptographically verified.

> You may not agree with this use of the technology, but it does not mean the behaviour is primarily criminal. Again, don't be disingenuous. You're literally commenting on a post on how the IRS requires transactions over 10k to be reported with the goal of fighting money laundering, and how that raises "alarm bells". This is not about paying artists. This is not about paying taxes. This is about a requirement to repo…

You sound like a fucking dumbass.

Re: NFTs over 10k, you go to jail

#25

Post by curryst »

nuerow wrote: post #3

So, what's IRC Section 6050I and why was it being purposely omitted by the poster? Answer: https://www.irs.gov/government-entities/indian-tribal-govern... > IRC Section 6050I requires that any person engaged in a trade or business that receives cash in excess of $10,000 in a single transaction or in related transactions must file Form 8300 PDF, Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business. So…

I was curious and that still didn't sound right to me, so I Googled it. It's a more sweeping set of changes, I think still aimed at money laundering.

This seemed like a neutral summary of the changes, though it lacks any analysis on what this means for crypto:

https://taxnews.ey.com/news/2021-1538-senate-passed-infrastr...

Re: NFTs over 10k, you go to jail

#26

Post by rchaud »

nuerow wrote: post #3

So, what's IRC Section 6050I and why was it being purposely omitted by the poster? Answer: https://www.irs.gov/government-entities/indian-tribal-govern... > IRC Section 6050I requires that any person engaged in a trade or business that receives cash in excess of $10,000 in a single transaction or in related transactions must file Form 8300 PDF, Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business. So…

I worked at a remittance firm with a Money Services Business license back in 2008. I remember during the AML (anti money laundering) training that we had to report any transactions >= $10k to FINCEN within 15 days.

We were also trained to look out for 'structuring', where the same individual makes multiple transactions under $10k each, in order to evade those reporting requirements.

Re: NFTs over 10k, you go to jail

#27

Post by rchaud »

0xdeadb00f wrote: post #12
nuerow wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are artists incentivised to makw them? NFTs have absolutely nothing to do with artists or art. They are mainly a scheme to launder money. Please note that the poster whining about the IRS provision didn't complained about sales tax or income tax, but the need to report transactions over 10k to the IRS. The IRS moved in to plug a loophole, and the NFT gang reacted to it like vampires exposed to sunlight.

I've only ever seen artists make and sell their art as NFTs. Which is why I asked. Because I'm confused as to why an artist would do that. I understand it's a massive scam but I didn't get why prominent artists I follow are getting into it in the first place.

> I didn't get why prominent artists I follow are getting into it in the first place.

Power law. Prominent artists will move to cash in now, as they can hoover up 90% of whatever legitimate business there is. The remaining 10% will be fought over by no-name artists who enter the scene too late.

Re: NFTs over 10k, you go to jail

#28

Post by rchaud »

LurkingPenguin wrote: post #6

I did a quick Google search to see who the tweeter is and found this gem[1]: > BC: Will the Bond token be available to U.S. and U.K. users soon? > PD: U.K. is more likely than the U.S., possibly in Q1 we’ll make a deal with the owners of a regulated vehicle. However, the strict laws in the U.K. against bearer securities add further complications. > The structure is actually U.S.-centric, each set of assets is held in…

> I always thought crypto was supposed to make things easier and more transparent,

It is, but only to armchair libertarians that live in a vaccuum and see the world as described in an economics textbook, where there are no transport costs and no regulations.

Re: NFTs over 10k, you go to jail

#30

Post by nybble41 »

0xdeadb00f wrote: post #7
sasij wrote: post #5

Good, honestly. This NFT stuff is such garbage.

Why are artists incentivised to makw them? Don't they only make money off the initial sale? What happens after that, they don't make money off, correct?

> Don't they only make money off the initial sale?

In some cases there may be a royalty to the original artist on resale. But even if there isn't, just as with dividend-free stock offerings, the existence of a resale market means that the artist (or company) can expect to receive more money from the initial sale since buyers have the prospect of recuperating some of their initial expense by reselling the NFTs (or shares) later.

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