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Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

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Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#21

Consider options like Framework laptops that let you actually own your hardware, and repair it.

Silly idea in tech, the hardware will be long outdated before someone look for parts which are going to be overpriced, and the company might be gone forever. You can buy common business laptops such as thinkpad and swap the parts easily and cheaply. People aren’t swapping their 2011 i3 for a 2011 i7 if they care about performance; they’re getting an i5 from 2018. None of these swappable parts are unique aside from th…

It also means that you can keep the same shell while changing other components to upgrade it, yknow, like desktops.

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#22

Consider options like Framework laptops that let you actually own your hardware, and repair it.

Silly idea in tech, the hardware will be long outdated before someone look for parts which are going to be overpriced, and the company might be gone forever. You can buy common business laptops such as thinkpad and swap the parts easily and cheaply. People aren’t swapping their 2011 i3 for a 2011 i7 if they care about performance; they’re getting an i5 from 2018. None of these swappable parts are unique aside from th…

And the used 2011 i3, that wouldn't become garbage if it were repairable would get sold to someone less performance / price consciousness? Now it gets trashed.

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#23
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want you to take the device to the dealership.

The SSDs of 2015-2017 macbooks start failing and they are soldered on the board. I have a 12" that I can only boot from external now otherwise the device would be dead. With the M1 models you don't even have the chance to do this. Apple won't even change the failed ssds they will sell you a new logic board for the prize of a new machine. It's infuriating and the only reason I won't buy a machine until they make user…

I suspect they began soldering it because the cable connecting the disk drive had a lot of problems in older MacBooks. Soldering may have been an easy fix for that.

I hate the soldering, too. I'm just offering an explanation that may make some sense given the context.

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#24

I never cared about bootable backups. What is more of a concern is getting data off a non-bootable Mac that has a viable drive, since Apple often replaces the drive as part of servicing.

The SSD on all new Macs is soldered into the board. If a single component on the board breaks, they replace the whole thing.

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#26
General grumpiness about this particular design decision aside, it appears that since the T2 Macs, the main SSD was being used to store core system firmware. On T2 I think it's BridgeOS that sends the EFI image to the Intel side to boot it, and it does the firmware verification and loading.

This setup has a benefit; namely, it is now impossible to brick the system with a bad BIOS/EFI flash, and you'll never need to use a hardware SPI flasher to recover. Just like the iPhone, you can enter Boot ROM DFU mode, which can't easily be overwritten, and restore all of the firmware on the system that's writable.

This is great for restoring systems to a known good firmware state, including SSD, EFI, BridgeOS, RecoveryOS. On a normal system, there is plenty of non volatile storage that is difficult to recover or reset.

The primary argument against soldering the SSD, or really any other part, down like this tends to be that "Oh, now you can't just save money by upgrading it yourself|replacing it when it breaks". On the other side, these machines are engineered as appliances that should achieve a certain degree of reliability. The SSD is reasonably considered to last the "lifetime" of the product, and should it fail, I don't consider the inability to externally boot to be a huge problem, since whatever failure damaged the SSD is statistically likely to compromise the reliability of the rest of the board. Any failure is grounds for "rework" of the board on a hardware level if necessary,up to and including repair/replacement of the onboard flash, and not just a simple workaround in my opinion. Note that they don't force you to actually USE the internal SSD - you can still netboot or USB boot I think. It just has to work.

Trivia: -At least on T2 systems, the flash memory itself (the NAND chips) on the mainboard can actually be swapped between units after a DFU restore by unsoldering them and transferring them.

The person that did this on YouTube notes that a common reason for SSD failure on T2 machines is due to SSD power regulator circuitry being located close to the intake vents on the side of the MacBook Pro. They recommend that users of these machines open them and clean the dust out often, since dust buildup on the actual power regulator combined with moisture sometimes causes a short circuit, sending high voltage to the SSD and damaging it.

This kind of failure (high voltage parts close to low voltage ones, close to liquid damage prone areas, without any underfilling) is documented by Louis Rossmann. It is, however, not always feasible or possible to entirely prevent.

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#27

Consider options like Framework laptops that let you actually own your hardware, and repair it.

Silly idea in tech, the hardware will be long outdated before someone look for parts which are going to be overpriced, and the company might be gone forever. You can buy common business laptops such as thinkpad and swap the parts easily and cheaply. People aren’t swapping their 2011 i3 for a 2011 i7 if they care about performance; they’re getting an i5 from 2018. None of these swappable parts are unique aside from th…

If you can't buy parts from 3rd parties e.g. you can't source chips or connectors etc. on Mouser, then I can't see how this is much different from Apple. Just because manufacturer sells parts themselves (thus avoiding spending money on good repair service), probably won't save you much money considering you will have to spend your own time and make effort to fix it yourself. Nonetheless, any move into more repair friendly product is welcome.

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#28

I never cared about bootable backups. What is more of a concern is getting data off a non-bootable Mac that has a viable drive, since Apple often replaces the drive as part of servicing.

Isn't the drive encrypted anyway, with the key in T2?

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#29

Consider options like Framework laptops that let you actually own your hardware, and repair it.

As soon as they make it possible to install free firmware such as coreboot.

We're comparing to Apple. Have fun freebooting that.

Re: Apple Silicon Macs can't boot from external drive if internal drive failed

#30
post #18

Unsurprising. Given the countless times I have warned about the risks of going 'all in' on an Apple Silicon Mac and now they realise. Good luck with your files if the internal hard drive is dead. Consider creating regular backups otherwise your can say goodbye to your files. No thanks and absolutely no deal to that.

How is this any different than any other computer? If a hard drive fails, recovering data is either impossible or very expensive. Everyone who uses a computer ought to have some sort of backup, either another drive, cloud service, etc.
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