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How to Read “Gilgamesh” (2019)

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Re: How to Read “Gilgamesh” (2019)

#21

Post by roywiggins »

shantnutiwari wrote: post #11

I read Stephen Mitchell's translation, which isnt the most academic but certainly the most readable. It was the 1st time I actually finished the book. My only problem is: It looks like parts of the story are missing. Certainly, the ending is very downer. Spoilers: Gilamesh fails to save his friend, loses the immortality herbs, and comes home empty handed and humiliated. Certainly, one of the lessons is that Gilgamesh…

Parts of the story definitely are missing, either from tablets getting damaged or lost.

Re: How to Read “Gilgamesh” (2019)

#22

Post by wl »

shantnutiwari wrote: post #11

I read Stephen Mitchell's translation, which isnt the most academic but certainly the most readable. It was the 1st time I actually finished the book. My only problem is: It looks like parts of the story are missing. Certainly, the ending is very downer. Spoilers: Gilamesh fails to save his friend, loses the immortality herbs, and comes home empty handed and humiliated. Certainly, one of the lessons is that Gilgamesh…

I rather like how the story is bookended. After everything that happens, it ends with Gilgamesh reciting an excerpt from the beginning to Ur-Shanabi the boatman:

Go up, Ur-Shanabi, pace out the walls of Uruk.

Study the foundation terrace and examine the brickwork.

Is not its masonry kiln-fired brick?

And did not seven masters lay its foundations?

One square mile of city, one square mile of gardens,

One square mile of clay pits, a half square mile of Ishtar's dwelling.

Three and a half square miles is the measure of Uruk!

Re: How to Read “Gilgamesh” (2019)

#23

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

shantnutiwari wrote: post #11

I read Stephen Mitchell's translation, which isnt the most academic but certainly the most readable. It was the 1st time I actually finished the book. My only problem is: It looks like parts of the story are missing. Certainly, the ending is very downer. Spoilers: Gilamesh fails to save his friend, loses the immortality herbs, and comes home empty handed and humiliated. Certainly, one of the lessons is that Gilgamesh…

Since we're mentioning Stephen Mitchell I'd also recommend his translation of The Tao Te Ching.

Re: How to Read “Gilgamesh” (2019)

#24

Post by shusaku »

soco wrote: post #17
handrous wrote: post #8

I'm not an expert but I've probably read a whole lot more Near East literature than, considered over a population of billions, nearly everyone. In English translation, but still. A half dozen volumes, I think, cover to cover? Maybe seven? Gilgamesh is the only work out of all of that, that I'd recommend to pretty much anyone who likes literature. Egypt has a couple promising, if relatively late, tales, but both are o…

It depends a lot on the translation I suppose, because my experience with the old testament was rather unpleasant - reading it in centuries-old language brought me no joy at all.

If you want to read the Old Testament as literature, Robert Alter’s translation is really good. I thought his notes (which are not about theology) really help you tap in to what the authors are doing.

Re: How to Read “Gilgamesh” (2019)

#25

Post by retrac »

violiner wrote: post #13
retrac wrote: post #3

How appropriate! I have recently (4 months?) started studying Akkadian. Just an intellectual curiosity. I don't really expect to get far. But it has been fascinating. Let me tell you the factoid that got me started down this road: More writings survive in Akkadian than from the classical Latin world. The entire output in Latin from c. 400 BC - 300 AD pales in comparison to what we've dug up out of burned royal librar…

What are you using to study Akkadian?

John Huehnergard's A Grammar of Akkadian: https://brill.com/view/title/38184 seems to be well-respected. It's a grammar textbook that goes through the usual topics (nouns, verbs, etc.) Teaches the dialect of the Old Babylonian Empire and should be approachable for someone who has studied another language before.

A History of the Akkadian Language: https://brill.com/view/title/21744 was just published. It's monumental and eclectic. All sorts of topics related to Akkadian. Its internal history, changes, as well as recent history of its deciphering. I've been skimming that, using that as a sort of backgrounder. Some of it's over my head, and I took a few semesters of linguistics once upon a time.

The Chicago Assyrian Dictionary has been fully published and digitized: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Assyrian_Dictionary But it's like the OED and I think at the start you would want a wordbook or wordlist with your reading materials, that matches the dialect/era you're working with. A variety of those floating around.

The Oxford Handbook in Cuneiform Culture - more background reading in https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/978019...

While the written form was pretty fossilized (like Latin or English spelling) it was used for ~3000 years and changed a great deal over time like any language. Old Babylonian seems to be a common starting point. I think probably because it's well-attested, was some of the first material discovered, and because it's the language of (the most complete version of) Gilgamesh, and also Hammurabi's law codes.

Re: How to Read “Gilgamesh” (2019)

#26

Post by narrator »

I read Gilgamesh a few times over the years.

Two things I found interesting:

1. Sex is viewed as a civilizing force. It brings Enkidu in to city life after being a wild man living among animals for example.

2. It feels as if there aren't a lot of people around and humanity only has a very small island like footprint in this vast unknown world. It's almost like how we feel about outer space today.

Re: How to Read “Gilgamesh” (2019)

#27

Post by shantnutiwari »

handrous wrote: post #14
shantnutiwari wrote: post #11

I read Stephen Mitchell's translation, which isnt the most academic but certainly the most readable. It was the 1st time I actually finished the book. My only problem is: It looks like parts of the story are missing. Certainly, the ending is very downer. Spoilers: Gilamesh fails to save his friend, loses the immortality herbs, and comes home empty handed and humiliated. Certainly, one of the lessons is that Gilgamesh…

The ending feels complete, and ever-relevant, to me. I think of it every time rich people freezing their heads or getting blood transfusions from kids or talking about brain-to-computer transfers comes up, which is pretty often on this site.

ha! Yes, the book does teach us the dangers of arrogance, of thinking we can become immortal by some trick or "magic" or technology-- and I suppose it does teach that lesson very well

Re: How to Read “Gilgamesh” (2019)

#28

Post by nindalf »

emodendroket wrote: post #15
handrous wrote: post #8

I'm not an expert but I've probably read a whole lot more Near East literature than, considered over a population of billions, nearly everyone. In English translation, but still. A half dozen volumes, I think, cover to cover? Maybe seven? Gilgamesh is the only work out of all of that, that I'd recommend to pretty much anyone who likes literature. Egypt has a couple promising, if relatively late, tales, but both are o…

The Ramayana sounded like fun though it's hard to figure out which version you're supposed to read.

Ive read, listened and watched many versions of both the Ramayana and the Mahabharata. Of the two, the latter is the superior story in every way. Most importantly for me, the characters. I hope I won’t offend anyone’s religious sensibilities when I say the main character of the Ramayana is a bit dull, one dimensional and treats his wife terribly.

The Mahabharata has its share of misogyny, but it has a couple of fantastic characters - Karna and Bheeshma. It’s worth reading for these two alone.

“The only thing worth reading about is the human heart in conflict with itself”. These two exemplify that principle, whereas I found it absent in the Ramayana.

Re: How to Read “Gilgamesh” (2019)

#29

Post by blacksmith_tb »

ramesh31 wrote: post #2

Gilgamesh is meant to be heard, not read. It comes from an oral tradition of storytelling that was thousands of years old before it was ever written down. I just finished watching an incredible performance of it by Abed Azrié, highly recommended: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ARRP5i2nw8

It sounds good in Arabic, though I guess we don't know precisely how Akkadian sounded[1], they are both in the same language group. I generally liked Mitchell's 'translation' (which is more like a retelling than a scholarly work)[2]

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadian_language#Phonetics_an...

2: https://youtu.be/sf2RmQYiUJo?t=54

Re: How to Read “Gilgamesh” (2019)

#30

Post by shantnutiwari »

wl wrote: post #22
shantnutiwari wrote: post #11

I read Stephen Mitchell's translation, which isnt the most academic but certainly the most readable. It was the 1st time I actually finished the book. My only problem is: It looks like parts of the story are missing. Certainly, the ending is very downer. Spoilers: Gilamesh fails to save his friend, loses the immortality herbs, and comes home empty handed and humiliated. Certainly, one of the lessons is that Gilgamesh…

I rather like how the story is bookended. After everything that happens, it ends with Gilgamesh reciting an excerpt from the beginning to Ur-Shanabi the boatman: Go up, Ur-Shanabi, pace out the walls of Uruk. Study the foundation terrace and examine the brickwork. Is not its masonry kiln-fired brick? And did not seven masters lay its foundations? One square mile of city, one square mile of gardens, One square mile of…

Yes, the ending returning to the start was beautiful ,in a heart breaking sort of way
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