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Europol investigation busts 150 'high value' darknet vendors

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Re: Europol investigation busts 150 'high value' darknet vendors

#21

Post by FireBeyond »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #18
Tenoke wrote: post #5

I can't help but think that the series of extremely big operations by a fair amount of countries, interpol and resources can't be worth catching 230kg of drugs (which includes a lot of weed) spread over 150 sesperate vendors. The crypto $ amount is also misleading as crypto has 10+x'd quite quickly. I wish they'd go after the operations that actually hurt people. Hell, you can walk in plenty of places in Berlin (and…

> you can walk in plenty of places in Berlin (and it's often German authorities in the lead) and spot much worse dealers than those selling online People who sell online are very different from those who sell in-person. Most come from socio-economic backgrounds where all kinds of anti-social behaviour is normalized. They are also not "professional" so to speak, and do not know the words Op and Sec. Someone who's sell…

This is a dangerous normalization. Realize that I am generally for decriminalization. But the myth that dark web vendors are "violence/crime free drugs" is exactly that, a myth.

There are certainly drugs which have less (but not none) of a violent pipeline (for example, lab-synthesized drugs), but just because you buy your cocaine from someone on Tor doesn't mean that there's not abuse, corruption, crime, violence and death associated with its sourcing and growth.

I think comments like this, or beliefs like this are a sort of feel-good mythology. Or "changing the world", or something. Superiority (though to be clear, I'm not ascribing any one of these to your specific comment). But it is a lot less grounded in reality than proponents would like to think.

Re: Europol investigation busts 150 'high value' darknet vendors

#22

Post by aqme28 »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #18
Tenoke wrote: post #5

I can't help but think that the series of extremely big operations by a fair amount of countries, interpol and resources can't be worth catching 230kg of drugs (which includes a lot of weed) spread over 150 sesperate vendors. The crypto $ amount is also misleading as crypto has 10+x'd quite quickly. I wish they'd go after the operations that actually hurt people. Hell, you can walk in plenty of places in Berlin (and…

> you can walk in plenty of places in Berlin (and it's often German authorities in the lead) and spot much worse dealers than those selling online People who sell online are very different from those who sell in-person. Most come from socio-economic backgrounds where all kinds of anti-social behaviour is normalized. They are also not "professional" so to speak, and do not know the words Op and Sec. Someone who's sell…

> Good job, you seized a car-full of drugs and some dudes who mail drugs, do they think the global drug market has felt real hit?

There's a great interview on YouTube with a former drug enforcement officer, whose department spent 7 months to bust a large drug ring. He said it took two hours before other dealers had moved in.

Re: Europol investigation busts 150 'high value' darknet vendors

#23

Post by dj_mc_merlin »

FireBeyond wrote: post #21
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can walk in plenty of places in Berlin (and it's often German authorities in the lead) and spot much worse dealers than those selling online People who sell online are very different from those who sell in-person. Most come from socio-economic backgrounds where all kinds of anti-social behaviour is normalized. They are also not "professional" so to speak, and do not know the words Op and Sec. Someone who's sell…

This is a dangerous normalization. Realize that I am generally for decriminalization. But the myth that dark web vendors are "violence/crime free drugs" is exactly that, a myth. There are certainly drugs which have less (but not none) of a violent pipeline (for example, lab-synthesized drugs), but just because you buy your cocaine from someone on Tor doesn't mean that there's not abuse, corruption, crime, violence an…

You're assuming that's what I meant, but no, not at all. One does not make cocaine without violence through some degree. As you noted, somebody making acid is probably not killing anyone. But association with a criminal gang, even just through trade, definitely morally implicates them more than street dealers.

That said, they will not break my door down to try and rob me. Street dealers have done that in the past. This is a selfish perspective sure, but street dealers are generally a much bigger danger to me than being murdered by Colombian drug lords. This is what I meant by "apples to oranges".. organized criminals are much worse morally (the law agrees here), but pretty unlikely to actually do anything to you, since they are organized and do not wish to attract attention.

Re: Europol investigation busts 150 'high value' darknet vendors

#24

Post by Scoundreller »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #18
Tenoke wrote: post #5

I can't help but think that the series of extremely big operations by a fair amount of countries, interpol and resources can't be worth catching 230kg of drugs (which includes a lot of weed) spread over 150 sesperate vendors. The crypto $ amount is also misleading as crypto has 10+x'd quite quickly. I wish they'd go after the operations that actually hurt people. Hell, you can walk in plenty of places in Berlin (and…

> you can walk in plenty of places in Berlin (and it's often German authorities in the lead) and spot much worse dealers than those selling online People who sell online are very different from those who sell in-person. Most come from socio-economic backgrounds where all kinds of anti-social behaviour is normalized. They are also not "professional" so to speak, and do not know the words Op and Sec. Someone who's sell…

Well, some black markets have been successfully disrupted.

It’s hard to get relatively-safe but difficult-to-smuggle opium and heroin due to supply disruption, so now the market has almost entirely shifted to fentanyl which is easy to produce and ultra potent (therefore easy to smuggle).

Yay?

Re: Europol investigation busts 150 'high value' darknet vendors

#25

Post by Scoundreller »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #23
FireBeyond wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a dangerous normalization. Realize that I am generally for decriminalization. But the myth that dark web vendors are "violence/crime free drugs" is exactly that, a myth. There are certainly drugs which have less (but not none) of a violent pipeline (for example, lab-synthesized drugs), but just because you buy your cocaine from someone on Tor doesn't mean that there's not abuse, corruption, crime, violence an…

You're assuming that's what I meant, but no, not at all. One does not make cocaine without violence through some degree. As you noted, somebody making acid is probably not killing anyone. But association with a criminal gang, even just through trade, definitely morally implicates them more than street dealers. That said, they will not break my door down to try and rob me. Street dealers have done that in the past. Th…

Is there anything stopping us from having conflict-free organic fair-trade cocaine other than government actions and prohibitions making that impossible?

If Colombia/Bolivia/Peru could collect an export tax or royalty on it before loading into the hold of a DHL cargo jet, I think their cartels would get disappeared overnight.

Re: Europol investigation busts 150 'high value' darknet vendors

#26

Post by FireBeyond »

Scoundreller wrote: post #25
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that's what I meant, but no, not at all. One does not make cocaine without violence through some degree. As you noted, somebody making acid is probably not killing anyone. But association with a criminal gang, even just through trade, definitely morally implicates them more than street dealers. That said, they will not break my door down to try and rob me. Street dealers have done that in the past. Th…

Is there anything stopping us from having conflict-free organic fair-trade cocaine other than government actions and prohibitions making that impossible? If Colombia/Bolivia/Peru could collect an export tax or royalty on it before loading into the hold of a DHL cargo jet, I think their cartels would get disappeared overnight.

Right, absolutely. Decriminalization or outright legalization has some benefits in this world.

Biggest issue I see there is that you still have to deal with corruption or infiltration by those elements too, who want their pound of flesh (and not to mention, in some of those countries, the cartels have the willingness, and the equipment and ability, to go to war with the police/military to keep their operation going).

Re: Europol investigation busts 150 'high value' darknet vendors

#27

Post by short12 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #24
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can walk in plenty of places in Berlin (and it's often German authorities in the lead) and spot much worse dealers than those selling online People who sell online are very different from those who sell in-person. Most come from socio-economic backgrounds where all kinds of anti-social behaviour is normalized. They are also not "professional" so to speak, and do not know the words Op and Sec. Someone who's sell…

Well, some black markets have been successfully disrupted. It’s hard to get relatively-safe but difficult-to-smuggle opium and heroin due to supply disruption, so now the market has almost entirely shifted to fentanyl which is easy to produce and ultra potent (therefore easy to smuggle). Yay?

It is not relatively hard. It is super easy, barely an inconvenience. And fentanyl is old and busted, Iso is the new hotness

For testing strips you can just go to dancesafe.org and get a kit

Sidenote: dancesafe and erowid were heavily funded by one of the earliest Microsoft employees

Re: Europol investigation busts 150 'high value' darknet vendors

#28

Post by Scoundreller »

FireBeyond wrote: post #26
Scoundreller wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything stopping us from having conflict-free organic fair-trade cocaine other than government actions and prohibitions making that impossible? If Colombia/Bolivia/Peru could collect an export tax or royalty on it before loading into the hold of a DHL cargo jet, I think their cartels would get disappeared overnight.

Right, absolutely. Decriminalization or outright legalization has some benefits in this world. Biggest issue I see there is that you still have to deal with corruption or infiltration by those elements too, who want their pound of flesh (and not to mention, in some of those countries, the cartels have the willingness, and the equipment and ability, to go to war with the police/military to keep their operation going).

The police and military will always be poorly resourced for battles that are a cost centre instead of a revenue-generator/protector.

Unlike marijuana, these countries have an absolute advantage in that cocaine doesn’t grow like a weed anywhere you want. And it’s low yield, so greenhouses are poor competition.

Re: Europol investigation busts 150 'high value' darknet vendors

#29

Post by _hl_ »

aqme28 wrote: post #22
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can walk in plenty of places in Berlin (and it's often German authorities in the lead) and spot much worse dealers than those selling online People who sell online are very different from those who sell in-person. Most come from socio-economic backgrounds where all kinds of anti-social behaviour is normalized. They are also not "professional" so to speak, and do not know the words Op and Sec. Someone who's sell…

> Good job, you seized a car-full of drugs and some dudes who mail drugs, do they think the global drug market has felt real hit? There's a great interview on YouTube with a former drug enforcement officer, whose department spent 7 months to bust a large drug ring. He said it took two hours before other dealers had moved in.

I believe I know what you're referring to but can't find the link anymore now.

The main takeaway for me was that by busting a major drug ring, you are only helping the other major players b removing competition. They will fight each other (brutally!) to take over what was left behind by the now defunct ring, and instead of two or more large drug rings, you now have one massive monopolistic drug ring, and everyone is worse off.

I'm not sure what a solution here is. The more you fight organised crime, the more they fight back, and the situation escalates and becomes more violent to everyone involved. Perhaps decriminalisation along with better support infrastructure for victims and addicts could help?

Re: Europol investigation busts 150 'high value' darknet vendors

#30

Post by flatiron »

Tenoke wrote: post #17
flatiron wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

straight up FUD. last time i was on a darknet market it wouldn't load the main page unless you disabled javascript. i know the Tor browser has to serve many masters but its always shocking that it doesn't disable javascript by default but give the user an easy way to add sites to the allow list. or at least just disable javascript on .onion sites

Tor Browser comes with noscript installed to quickly do that if you need.

but not displayed. so you right click the bar, click customize, find noscript, drag it to the bar, then go to customize, then go to default, a bunch of confusing options ("why is there a script and a noscript option? if i say no to noscript does that mean script? what is this crap!") which are defaulted to running javascript on the darkweb. that's just silly IMHO
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