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Covid-19 Vaccines and the Menstrual Cycle

covid19.nih.gov

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Re: Covid-19 Vaccines and the Menstrual Cycle

#21

Post by Arnt »

Factorium wrote: post #2

Shouldn't this kind of research have been carried out before billions of people were vaccinated? Is it ethical to enforce vaccinations (via mandate) with these matters unresolved?

These are the options:

1. Vaccinate LOTS of people.

2. Accept that the hospitals are full of covid patients, so people who break a leg can't get a bed.

Option 2 isn't very desirable. It only took months to find some vaccines that make option 1 clearly better than option 2. (Some other vaccines failed, but you don't hear about those.)

Re: Covid-19 Vaccines and the Menstrual Cycle

#22

Post by LurkingPenguin »

Uberphallus wrote: post #12
Factorium wrote: post #2

Shouldn't this kind of research have been carried out before billions of people were vaccinated? Is it ethical to enforce vaccinations (via mandate) with these matters unresolved?

> Shouldn't this kind of research have been carried out before billions of people were vaccinated? It's unfeasible to carry out research on every little aspect of any medication, except for the very long term. That's why drugs get approved all the time, yet trials and studies continue for decades to account for long term and extremely rare side effects. That said, literally anything can change the menstrual cycle (fl…

> I think so, unless you consider to keep enforcing lockdowns, travel restrictions, or a Children-of-the-corn-light type of scenario to be ethically better.

Well, a lot of places that have high vaccination rates still have domestic restrictions, or are considering bringing them back as they deal with new surges in COVID cases. International travel restrictions are still significant, even for fully vaccinated travelers.

See: Israel, Singapore, UK, Belgium to name a few

The vaccines do appear to offer good protection against hospitalization and death, which is great, but let's be honest: they haven't been anywhere near the panacea hoped for, and a lot of the pseudo-promises made around a return to normalcy haven't been kept. Instead, the goal posts keep changing.

Re: Covid-19 Vaccines and the Menstrual Cycle

#24

Post by WalterGR »

LurkingPenguin wrote: post #22
Uberphallus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shouldn't this kind of research have been carried out before billions of people were vaccinated? It's unfeasible to carry out research on every little aspect of any medication, except for the very long term. That's why drugs get approved all the time, yet trials and studies continue for decades to account for long term and extremely rare side effects. That said, literally anything can change the menstrual cycle (fl…

> I think so, unless you consider to keep enforcing lockdowns, travel restrictions, or a Children-of-the-corn-light type of scenario to be ethically better. Well, a lot of places that have high vaccination rates still have domestic restrictions, or are considering bringing them back as they deal with new surges in COVID cases. International travel restrictions are still significant, even for fully vaccinated traveler…

> let's be honest: they haven't been anywhere near the panacea hoped for, and a lot of the pseudo-promises made around a return to normalcy haven't been kept.

Isn't the latter caused in part by the former?

> Instead, the goal posts keep changing.

Have the goal posts moved or did the vaccines not make it to the goal line? You can't have it both ways.

Re: Covid-19 Vaccines and the Menstrual Cycle

#25

Post by LurkingPenguin »

Uberphallus wrote: post #19
forgingahead wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why though? Aren't the viral loads similar between the unvaccinated and fully vaccinated, and so the only benefit to being fully vaccinated is a private one (you are less susceptible to severe illness, though not totally immune)?

> Aren't the viral loads similar between the unvaccinated and fully vaccinated The viral loads in respiratory mucous at the peak are similar, sure, so from that one-dimensional metric that antivaxxers seem fixated in, it doesn't matter. But vaccinated people: 1. Have fewer chances of getting infected. 2. The incubation period is shorter so, if infected they go around spreading it for a shorter amount of time. 3. Thei…

> Have fewer chances of getting infected.

I think more precise language is warranted here. If you're vaccinated, you have a reduced risk of becoming infected if exposed. The protection of the vaccines against infection, however, appears to decrease fairly rapidly, hence the discussion around boosters.

But if a vaccinated person (especially one who has lower neutralizing antibodies) puts themselves in environments where they inevitably have more exposures (think crowded, poorly-ventilated indoor spaces like bars) and they are not as vigilant about mask wearing, they might have a relatively higher risk of getting a breakthrough infection than even an unvaccinated person whose behavior leaves them with fewer exposures.

Re: Covid-19 Vaccines and the Menstrual Cycle

#26

Post by forgingahead »

Arnt wrote: post #21
Factorium wrote: post #2

Shouldn't this kind of research have been carried out before billions of people were vaccinated? Is it ethical to enforce vaccinations (via mandate) with these matters unresolved?

These are the options: 1. Vaccinate LOTS of people. 2. Accept that the hospitals are full of covid patients, so people who break a leg can't get a bed. Option 2 isn't very desirable. It only took months to find some vaccines that make option 1 clearly better than option 2. (Some other vaccines failed, but you don't hear about those.)

Option 1 isn't viable though - see the UK, Israel, and Singapore for the latest news. They are highly vaccinated, 85% of total population (meaning over 90%+ of the eligible), and the hospital systems are still straining to capacity, resulting in more restrictions and the current scramble for boosters.

I think we have to face the reality that vaccines won't stop this, and the only way out is after this burns through everyone. Vaccines can help reduce personal impact on severity but doesn't seem to be helping the hospital load problem.

Re: Covid-19 Vaccines and the Menstrual Cycle

#27

Post by forgingahead »

WalterGR wrote: post #24
LurkingPenguin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think so, unless you consider to keep enforcing lockdowns, travel restrictions, or a Children-of-the-corn-light type of scenario to be ethically better. Well, a lot of places that have high vaccination rates still have domestic restrictions, or are considering bringing them back as they deal with new surges in COVID cases. International travel restrictions are still significant, even for fully vaccinated traveler…

> let's be honest: they haven't been anywhere near the panacea hoped for, and a lot of the pseudo-promises made around a return to normalcy haven't been kept. Isn't the latter caused in part by the former? > Instead, the goal posts keep changing. Have the goal posts moved or did the vaccines not make it to the goal line? You can't have it both ways.

I think the parent you're replying to and you are in agreement - the vaccines have turned out not to be magic exit to this, regardless of vaccination rate, so returning to normalcy isn't possible yet without overwhelming healthcare systems. So it's either start-stop for the near future again, or the ugly alternative where the systems get overwhelmed.

No good answers unfortunately, either way people suffer.

Re: Covid-19 Vaccines and the Menstrual Cycle

#28

Post by Arnt »

forgingahead wrote: post #26
Arnt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are the options: 1. Vaccinate LOTS of people. 2. Accept that the hospitals are full of covid patients, so people who break a leg can't get a bed. Option 2 isn't very desirable. It only took months to find some vaccines that make option 1 clearly better than option 2. (Some other vaccines failed, but you don't hear about those.)

Option 1 isn't viable though - see the UK, Israel, and Singapore for the latest news. They are highly vaccinated, 85% of total population (meaning over 90%+ of the eligible), and the hospital systems are still straining to capacity, resulting in more restrictions and the current scramble for boosters. I think we have to face the reality that vaccines won't stop this, and the only way out is after this burns through e…

It may not be viable in theory, but I see it working in practice here.

I live in Munich, Germany. The load on hospitals decreased as vaccination proceeded. Right now, the areas southeast of the city have the highest 7-day incidence in Germany, and even there can still grow by a factor of 4-5 before the hospitals are troubled.

Re: Covid-19 Vaccines and the Menstrual Cycle

#29

Post by a0-prw »

Arnt wrote: post #21
Factorium wrote: post #2

Shouldn't this kind of research have been carried out before billions of people were vaccinated? Is it ethical to enforce vaccinations (via mandate) with these matters unresolved?

These are the options: 1. Vaccinate LOTS of people. 2. Accept that the hospitals are full of covid patients, so people who break a leg can't get a bed. Option 2 isn't very desirable. It only took months to find some vaccines that make option 1 clearly better than option 2. (Some other vaccines failed, but you don't hear about those.)

Option 3. Improve the hospital system to have greater capacity.

Re: Covid-19 Vaccines and the Menstrual Cycle

#30

Post by dzhiurgis »

a0-prw wrote: post #29
Arnt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are the options: 1. Vaccinate LOTS of people. 2. Accept that the hospitals are full of covid patients, so people who break a leg can't get a bed. Option 2 isn't very desirable. It only took months to find some vaccines that make option 1 clearly better than option 2. (Some other vaccines failed, but you don't hear about those.)

Option 3. Improve the hospital system to have greater capacity.

Nursing degree takes 3 years minimum...
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