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Full-time Geeks Shouldn't Ignore Physical Impact of the Craft

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Re: Full-time Geeks Shouldn't Ignore Physical Impact of the Craft

#21

Post by ajross »

mike_h wrote: post #3

The main point is always worth reiterating (take care of your body), but before a bunch of people run out and buy wrist supports I just want to add that things like this are not universally endorsed by physical therapists (or fellow injury-prone hackers). They can lead to secondary issues like atrophy and poor circulation, which in turn lead to more issues, etc. Having been through multiple versions of these (the kin…

It's worse, actually. Last I remember reading the whole idea of keyboard-induced RSI is basically a myth. For RSI sufferers, keyboard use irritates the problem to the point where it can be debilitating. But there is no known correlation between keyboard use and RSI.

Some people have wrist pain, some (like me, despite living full time at a keyboard for most of the last 20 years) don't. If you do, take care of yourself. But don't do stuff like this prophylacticly, it's more likely to hurt than help.

Re: Full-time Geeks Shouldn't Ignore Physical Impact of the Craft

#22

Post by AJ007 »

georgieporgie wrote: post #9

Upon graduating college and entering the workforce, I was debilitated by awful wrist pain. It was so bad, I could barely shift my car on the way home. Over a decade later, my wrists hardly ever bother me. Physical therapy taught me to regularly stretch my wrists, and how to strengthen them. I began pursuing other activities which further strengthened my wrists (rock climbing is particularly great, so long as you avoi…

I dropped out of college and within 6 months had debilitating wrist pain. I couldn't even hold a mouse for more than about 20 minutes. I "fixed" it through wrist braces, like the author suggested, ergonomic keyboards (paid $1000 for a datahand keyboard while it was out of production), etc. Yet I still couldn't do simple thing like use a laptop keyboard pain free for 15 minutes. However, it was not until last year that I eliminated the pain completely.

The solution was simple strength training. Not weight lifting (I think that was a major contributor early on.) Within a few weeks of starting the beginner program in the book "You Are Your Own Gym" the pain was gone. I fully expected to have severe wrist pain and nerve damage for the rest of my life.

I hope this helps someone. The solutions to this problem are overblown (granted I suspect a combination of wrist braces and pain killers could push some people far past a recoverable edge.)

Re: Full-time Geeks Shouldn't Ignore Physical Impact of the Craft

#23

Post by AJ007 »

mike_esspe wrote: post #10
Jarred wrote: post #4

This is why I like having a desktop for coding. It's much more comfortable sitting in a nice chair, with two big monitors, an external ergonomic keyboard (Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite), and the Razer DeathAdder mouse (Not as ergonomic as a trackball mouse, but very ergonomic for a regular mouse). You could do this with a laptop too, but you'll be more prone to coding on the couch, which will dramatically increase…

I wonder if not using mouse helps against the syndrome? I'm coding only on notebooks + touchpad for last 10 years, and never had a problem. Though reading stories from people with syndrome makes me worrying :)

At the peak of my RSI I could barely hold a mouse, I switched to an adesso keyboard with touchpad in the center. It didn't cure it but it had an immediate and fairly lasting impact for the better. I'm so used to using a touchpad now I only use the mouse for PC games. See my other comment in here for the full story.

Re: Full-time Geeks Shouldn't Ignore Physical Impact of the Craft

#24

Post by AJ007 »

proee wrote: post #16

I've found setting my mouse sensitivity (pointer speed) to maximum helps reduce wrist movement. It takes just a little getting use to, but once you adjust to the increased speed your wrist moves very little. This is especially good for large displays (I have a triple monitor setup).

Switch to a touchpad keyboard. Try an adesso tru-form. It will feel really weird and uncomfortable for the first week, and then you won't look back. The only thing I can't do effectively on it now is PC games, especially FPSs.

Re: Full-time Geeks Shouldn't Ignore Physical Impact of the Craft

#25

Post by blahedo »

georgieporgie wrote: post #9

Upon graduating college and entering the workforce, I was debilitated by awful wrist pain. It was so bad, I could barely shift my car on the way home. Over a decade later, my wrists hardly ever bother me. Physical therapy taught me to regularly stretch my wrists, and how to strengthen them. I began pursuing other activities which further strengthened my wrists (rock climbing is particularly great, so long as you avoi…

> 2) Sit up straight, dammit. In every photo we ever see of new startups, how many people are sitting with good posture? None of them.

Do you have data that indicates that contributes to RSI? My personal experience is that trying to "sit up straight" and maintain "good" posture is the fastest, most direct route to wrist pain. Like, less than a half hour. By contrast, if I slouch my body, my wrists can maintain a graceful positive curve (not straight or bent back) and I can comfortably code or game for hours (though I try not to sit in one place that long, in general). As a side benefit, this also puts my eyes at a better angle when I'm using the laptop screen.

Re: Full-time Geeks Shouldn't Ignore Physical Impact of the Craft

#26

Post by zefhous »

erikcw wrote: post #19
ldayley wrote: post #5

I wish that the Dvorak keyboard layout would get more attention and support. Prevention > Cure.

Any idea if it is possible to re-arrange the backlit keys on a MacBook Air? I used to use Dvorak before I switched to Macs with their pretty keyboards.

To me part of the benefit of typing in Dvorak is that I'm touch-typing all the time.

Don't rearrange the keys, just learn to type entirely blind.

Re: Full-time Geeks Shouldn't Ignore Physical Impact of the Craft

#27

Post by Lewisham »

georgieporgie wrote: post #9

Upon graduating college and entering the workforce, I was debilitated by awful wrist pain. It was so bad, I could barely shift my car on the way home. Over a decade later, my wrists hardly ever bother me. Physical therapy taught me to regularly stretch my wrists, and how to strengthen them. I began pursuing other activities which further strengthened my wrists (rock climbing is particularly great, so long as you avoi…

I'm really pleased you mentioned stretching your wrists. I used to work for a university in New Zealand, which had a number of people off work because of RSI injuries. As New Zealand is a welfare state, the university was paying near-full wages to these ineffective workers, and some of them didn't come back for months or years.

They hired a nurse just for RSI injuries. The first and most important rule was "Muscles don't rebuild if you don't use them, so if they are hurting, you have to use them, not protect them." Everyone had been putting their wrists into wrist supports (which is what you would do if it was a broken bone or broken skin), and the pain wouldn't go away because the wrists weren't active, and thus weren't healing.

Whenever I see someone wearing a wrist support, I bite my tongue and try not to tell them to get it off, as its making it worse. I think I just sound like a self-important jerk, so I try not to.

Going to the gym, exercising my shoulders and wrists, is the best RSI medicine I've ever found.

Re: Full-time Geeks Shouldn't Ignore Physical Impact of the Craft

#28

Post by trusche »

I've been typing away on computers for fifteen years now and, knock on wood, never had any wrist problems. Split keyboards help a lot.

However, in the last few years, I've had increasing difficulty with my neck and shoulders, one one side mostly. I am also an avid whitewater kayaker, and the first time my shoulder cried out in protest, I put it down to making some wrong moves while playboating. Physical therapy and a break from the water took care of it eventually. So naturally I stopped the exercises, and the shoulder pain came back with a vengeance the first time I was back on the water.

Now paying attention to my posture, and doing neck and shoulder stretches several times a day, is slowly improving my condition. So don't forget to not only support your wrists, but also to support your whole lower arm, either by sitting very close to the table or by having a decent ergonomic chair with adjustable arm rests. It prevents your shoulders from hunching up and developing all sorts of knots in your shoulder and back muscles. Your neck will thank you.

Re: Full-time Geeks Shouldn't Ignore Physical Impact of the Craft

#30

Post by donw »

Wrist supports are one of the worst things you could buy for yourself. All you're doing is further weakening the supporting muscles, and making the injury worse.

Buy yourself a set of climbing shoes, a chalk bag, and a membership to a climbing gym. Your wrists, not to mention your whole body, will get a lot stronger, and RSI will become a thing of the past.

Completely anecdotal, but I used to climb a lot, before moving to Tokyo, and since I've been here, haven't been out once... and you know what? Wrist pain.

Exercise. Your body needs it.

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