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Physicists make most precise measurement of neutron’s lifetime

nature.com

21–30 of 67 posts

Re: Physicists make most precise measurement of neutron’s lifetime

#21

The question I want answered is not why a neutron takes so long to decay - that seems understandable as it's mitigated by the weak force - but why is that time of ~14.63 minutes the actual time it is? When the W- boson decays into an electron and antineutrino it happens millions of times faster than the life of the neutron itself. What makes that trigger point happen when it does?

Nobody knows

Re: Physicists make most precise measurement of neutron’s lifetime

#22
post #21

The question I want answered is not why a neutron takes so long to decay - that seems understandable as it's mitigated by the weak force - but why is that time of ~14.63 minutes the actual time it is? When the W- boson decays into an electron and antineutrino it happens millions of times faster than the life of the neutron itself. What makes that trigger point happen when it does?

Nobody knows

is the annoying answer "if it were really that much shorter we probably wouldn't exist"?

Re: Physicists make most precise measurement of neutron’s lifetime

#23

Here's a question I was always curious to hear a good intuitive explanation for -- Why does a neutron star not decay, as it is composed of neutrons, and free neutrons should decay in 15 minutes? Is it because the neutrons are in an energetic "well" and to decay out would actually require energy? In collapsing under gravity to neutron degeneracy, did the neutrons say, radiate away their ability to decay any more?

I guess there's probably not enough phase space for that

Re: Physicists make most precise measurement of neutron’s lifetime

#26

"Magnetic fields at the bottom of the bottle prevented the neutrons from touching the surface," So you can control neutrons with magnetic fields??

Yes, as neutrons have a magnetic moment. Neutrons are not affected by electric fields.

Re: Physicists make most precise measurement of neutron’s lifetime

#27

The question I want answered is not why a neutron takes so long to decay - that seems understandable as it's mitigated by the weak force - but why is that time of ~14.63 minutes the actual time it is? When the W- boson decays into an electron and antineutrino it happens millions of times faster than the life of the neutron itself. What makes that trigger point happen when it does?

Generally decay rates scale with the energy release (Q) which is relatively small here compared to the W decay. Decay is a tunneling process so less Q generally means a slower decay since there are fewer final states available (but the details are complicated).

Fermi's Golden Rule in principle allows you to calculate the decay rate. In practice we dont know how to calculate all the relevant quantities since QCD is hard.

Re: Physicists make most precise measurement of neutron’s lifetime

#28
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From skimming the review paper from OP (the "source:" in the caption on that error-bar chart), the neutrons in the beam experiments are thermalized, to a mean velocity of ~2,200 m/s. So, slower than 1e-5 c. https://doi.org/10.3390/atoms6040070 (Thermal meaning the neutrons scatter lots of times against atoms in a solid material, until they reach thermal equilibrium. ~km/s is a typical Boltzmann velocity for atom-size…

How does the scattering affect the neutrons? When do we start the clock for their lifetime anyway? It sounds like they could absorb + reemit sometimes when being scattered.

It doesn't matter when you start the clock, just that you count at the beginning and end. I doubt scattering plays a big role here at these kinetic energies.

Re: Physicists make most precise measurement of neutron’s lifetime

#29
It seems like the difference in lifetimes demands new physics. If the magnetically trapped neutron lifetimes match Standard Model predictions, then something involved in getting them into the beam must be changing them, or selecting out longer-lived individuals, both of which seem bonkers.

There is probably a Nobel for whoever solves this.

Capturing some from a beam into a magnetic trap seems like a good start.

Re: Physicists make most precise measurement of neutron’s lifetime

#30
post #29

It seems like the difference in lifetimes demands new physics. If the magnetically trapped neutron lifetimes match Standard Model predictions, then something involved in getting them into the beam must be changing them, or selecting out longer-lived individuals, both of which seem bonkers. There is probably a Nobel for whoever solves this. Capturing some from a beam into a magnetic trap seems like a good start.

The most-likely explanation for the discrepancy between the methods is systematic uncertainty. I think it will be a rather spectacular surprise if the refined beam measurements continue to disagree with the bottle measurements a decade from now.

If the discrepancy persists, then there really will be a problem.

There is plenty of theoretical speculation, especially in the last couple of years, about what such a discrepancy, if true, might mean. Again, it would be a real surprise, but if neutrons have another decay pathway other than the known one, then the bottle method measures the total decay rate, while the beam method measures the electron/beta-decay rate only.

The emerging state of the art, should this discrepancy persist, will become experiments that measure both channels simultaneously.

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