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Blue Origin: Toxic, dysfunctional ‘bro culture’, low morale and delays

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Blue Origin: Toxic, dysfunctional ‘bro culture’, low morale and delays

#21

Post by cletus »

This is organizational rot in action.

The former CEO of Honeywell is not the right guy to be at the helm. To be fair, this problem predated him. But it's just exacerbated BO becoming just another Corporate America drone factory of useless management and no leadership.

Just like Corporate America in general, risk not only isn't rewarded, it's actively punished. Barney Stinson said it best, "doing things gets you fired" [1].

I honestly think BO needs to clean house and almost start over. The culture is just bad at this point and throwing money at the problem just makes it worse.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoGwD-Ik7R8

Re: Blue Origin: Toxic, dysfunctional ‘bro culture’, low morale and delays

#23

Post by tomp »

badRNG wrote: post #12
mc32 wrote: post #4

It's not at all surprising there would be a counterproductive culture. Rockery isn't commerce. The management style which may result in excellence in commerce isn't the same that will do well in rocketry. It stems from Bezos and we know all the bad complaints that has produced. That said, can we get away from lazy shortcuts like 'bro culture' even if it's a juicy quote? Imagine someone said hick culture or urban cult…

"bro culture" is often used because it immediately evokes for most people that very familiar casually sexist environment that is tolerant of sexual harassment and intolerant of those who report inappropriate behavior. A workplace where "the guys" are loose and relaxed around each other, but when a women comes around they either tighten up around the "outsider" or often eventually cross boundaries with the woman. I fe…

> A workplace where "the guys" are loose and relaxed around each other, but when a women comes around they either tighten up around the "outsider"

You're jumping to conclusions here (relaxed guys rape women?!). A simple reason why men do that, is to avoid accusations of "bro culture" that quickly escalate towards "rape" as you did here.

On the other hand, it's obvious that any tight-knit group of people (casual or workplace) will develop its own internal jokes and other cultural artefacts. No need to attack this process wholesale as "bro culture".

Re: Blue Origin: Toxic, dysfunctional ‘bro culture’, low morale and delays

#24

Post by DFHippie »

badRNG wrote: post #6
mrgalaxy wrote: post #3

> Bezos, who recently stepped down as chief executive of Amazon, also owns The Washington Post. I like how they hide this statement several paragraphs into the article. Suddenly I have to ask if I am getting the entire story. Surely there is a better source for this story?

Regardless of how impartial the journalism may be on the story, this does seem like something you'd put in a disclaimer at the top of the story.

It is at the top of the story. It isn't the very first sentence, but just eyeballing my scrollbar it's about 5% of the way in and before the meat of the reporting.

I'm not a journalist, by my understanding is that journalism uses an inverted pyramid rhetorical structure. You put the gist of the article first so people can quickly judge if they want to continue reading. Then you have the details. The disclaimer is after the condensed intro and immediately before this sentence, which begins their detailed reporting: "This account is based on interviews with more than 20 current and former Blue Origin employees and industry officials with close ties to the firm, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal."

Re: Blue Origin: Toxic, dysfunctional ‘bro culture’, low morale and delays

#25

Post by whoisjuan »

The main problem with Blue Origin is that it isn't SpaceX. And I think Bezos clearly knows that he has a very small window of chance to make it work. So I bet the top-down pressure is insane. Perfect condtions for a toxic culture.

So if you get a job at Blue Origin with the expectations that is going to feel like working for a cozy, cultural-heavy, trendy startup, you probably should re-caliber the way you set your expectations.

Re: Blue Origin: Toxic, dysfunctional ‘bro culture’, low morale and delays

#26

Post by seattle_spring »

> Another top executive was coached by human resources on appropriate workplace behavior after he repeatedly referred to a group of female employees as “mean girls,” which continued even after they complained about it to management

What's a logical reason why "mean girls" is egregious enough to require reeducation, but "bro culture" doesn't bat an eye?

Re: Blue Origin: Toxic, dysfunctional ‘bro culture’, low morale and delays

#27

Post by badRNG »

narraturgy wrote: post #19
badRNG wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"bro culture" is often used because it immediately evokes for most people that very familiar casually sexist environment that is tolerant of sexual harassment and intolerant of those who report inappropriate behavior. A workplace where "the guys" are loose and relaxed around each other, but when a women comes around they either tighten up around the "outsider" or often eventually cross boundaries with the woman. I fe…

The commenter to whom you are replying did not seem to misunderstand the term, they called for the use of more meaningful terms that do not rely on slang which is potentially subject to regional or experiential biases. To that point, I highly doubt that "everyone" has the same view of the word "bro" that you do. That will only become more true the further you get from America and American slang. The fact that you fel…

The intention is to contrast the term with alternatives that men often find far more upsetting like "rape culture" or calling the culture openly misogynistic or sexist. Men often find these terms upsetting, as they feel it makes them out to be victimizers or predators. It's difficult to land on any language describing a misogynist, sexist work environment without needing to consider the emotions of those who's participation is most important in confronting the issue.

To my knowledge, the right language hasn't been found that men generally find palatable for describing a sexist work environment.

Re: Blue Origin: Toxic, dysfunctional ‘bro culture’, low morale and delays

#28

Post by dragonwriter »

seattle_spring wrote: post #26

> Another top executive was coached by human resources on appropriate workplace behavior after he repeatedly referred to a group of female employees as “mean girls,” which continued even after they complained about it to management What's a logical reason why "mean girls" is egregious enough to require reeducation, but "bro culture" doesn't bat an eye?

> What's a logical reason why "mean girls" is egregious enough to require reeducation, but "bro culture" doesn't bat an eye?

Maybe its not a difference between the words, but between describing a broad social trend in the latter case and “referred to a group of female employees” in the former.

Re: Blue Origin: Toxic, dysfunctional ‘bro culture’, low morale and delays

#29

Post by mc32 »

badRNG wrote: post #27
narraturgy wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter to whom you are replying did not seem to misunderstand the term, they called for the use of more meaningful terms that do not rely on slang which is potentially subject to regional or experiential biases. To that point, I highly doubt that "everyone" has the same view of the word "bro" that you do. That will only become more true the further you get from America and American slang. The fact that you fel…

The intention is to contrast the term with alternatives that men often find far more upsetting like "rape culture" or calling the culture openly misogynistic or sexist. Men often find these terms upsetting, as they feel it makes them out to be victimizers or predators. It's difficult to land on any language describing a misogynist, sexist work environment without needing to consider the emotions of those who's partic…

Can the journalist describe what happens there with actual descriptions of the behavior that occurs along with how often it may happen?

Taking a quote like bro culture is as lazy as saying hoodlum or hooligan culture, etc. What are they trying to say and have us imagine? Just tell us what the behavior is.

Re: Blue Origin: Toxic, dysfunctional ‘bro culture’, low morale and delays

#30

Post by vishho »

seattle_spring wrote: post #26

> Another top executive was coached by human resources on appropriate workplace behavior after he repeatedly referred to a group of female employees as “mean girls,” which continued even after they complained about it to management What's a logical reason why "mean girls" is egregious enough to require reeducation, but "bro culture" doesn't bat an eye?

There is no logical reason. The emotional reason, of course, is that one targets men and the other targets women. Most activism these days is retalitory, not consolidatory. So you are allowed to attack white men, because they are always in a position of power.

But both outlets are owned by Bezos, so maybe both outlets are just toxic. The fish rots from the head.

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