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Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

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21–30 of 306 posts

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#21
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really an issue for low- to middle-income earners, or is that just a scare tactic?

Most low to middle income earners struggle to hit their 5k or so maximum of a regular IRA versus operate a self-directed or have the additional funds to make it worth it.

Most low income Americans struggle to save any money for retirement at all.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#22
post #11

>Under these provisions, you would no longer be allowed to invest your IRA into private placements and single-member LLCs, regardless of your level of income or wealth. Huh. So under current law, you can take your IRA money and "invest" it in a single-member LLC? Wild. Does that let you circumvent the proscription against living in properties you own through your IRA? Since in that case, the "owner" would be the LLC,…

No it doesn't as that would fall under the rules for prohibited transactions of which there are strict rules and penalties. See https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-participant-employ... .

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#23
post #11

>Under these provisions, you would no longer be allowed to invest your IRA into private placements and single-member LLCs, regardless of your level of income or wealth. Huh. So under current law, you can take your IRA money and "invest" it in a single-member LLC? Wild. Does that let you circumvent the proscription against living in properties you own through your IRA? Since in that case, the "owner" would be the LLC,…

Huh. Under current tax laws you can literally dodge paying taxes using a totally unintended loophole in something called 401k. Wild.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#24

Hey everyone: stop talking about your compliant tax strategies! It’s been nice to want to help people but now, obviously, too many people know of some and their representatives are changing the laws. It’s back to the way it’s always been: if you can afford good lawyers then you get to know of obscure tax codes. Lets leave it that way.

The modern 401(k) practices emerged from one of these then-obscure tax codes, which I view as an unabashedly good outcome.

Nah, the 401(k) system is a mechanism of wealth extraction for white collar government-adjacent workers. It's a form of repression.

I'd rather be building something than dealing with tax, but I'm very much incentivized to do the latter (though your situation may differ).

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#26

Hey everyone: stop talking about your compliant tax strategies! It’s been nice to want to help people but now, obviously, too many people know of some and their representatives are changing the laws. It’s back to the way it’s always been: if you can afford good lawyers then you get to know of obscure tax codes. Lets leave it that way.

The modern 401(k) practices emerged from one of these then-obscure tax codes, which I view as an unabashedly good outcome.

The modern 401k laws are a giveaway to the financial industry. They stipulate extraordinary restrictions on what investors can/must _invest_ in and fundamentally transfer tremendous economic power and influence to “advisors” and the financiers attached to them.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#27
post #3
post #2

Self directed IRAs are commonly used with a wholly owned single member LLC to invest IRA funds into real estate related investments such as rental properties or many other types of private investments. The new proposed tax bill seems to remove the ability of the IRA owner to manage that LLC and effectively end the use of checkbook control IRAs.

Is this really an issue for low- to middle-income earners, or is that just a scare tactic?

It's an issue insofar as there are companies that have productized the ability to dodge some taxes and rules with a self-directed single-member LLC you invest in via your IRA. This would severely harm those companies, who presumably have low- and middle-income customers.

One example: https://www.choiceapp.io/

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#28
post #11

>Under these provisions, you would no longer be allowed to invest your IRA into private placements and single-member LLCs, regardless of your level of income or wealth. Huh. So under current law, you can take your IRA money and "invest" it in a single-member LLC? Wild. Does that let you circumvent the proscription against living in properties you own through your IRA? Since in that case, the "owner" would be the LLC,…

I’ve never known anyone to own a property as an IRA holding. Is that possible??

People definitely own rental properties in self directed IRAs. You have to be completely hands off - must hire property management, can't fix anything, etc.

I think you can get non-recourse mortgages, but it's more like 50% down instead of 20% like most non-owner occupied mortgages.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#29
post #19

Presumably meant to address high net worth individuals completely dodging taxation on huge gains by using their IRAs for investments like exercising early-stage stock options.[1] I kind of wish they'd go with just capping the gains, but would I still say that if I wasn't planning to use mine to "fund" high-return cryptocurrency arbitrages? 1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2021/06/24/peter-th...

That may be the case but they are casting a very wide net. The numbers I've seen say there are on the order of 100k-1MM self directed IRA accounts that exist. Approximately 0% of which are lucky enough to be Peter Thiel and invest in founders stock of Paypal.
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