boring and fake
An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)
21–30 of 82 posts
Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)
#22As a complete tangent, I find it quite sad that because of things like the ft paywall, stories like this that are written today will be lost to the sands of time.
Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Canada, US, China Three of the six largest oil producers. Norway's lack of suffering from the so called resource curse isn't that special. What's special about Norway is their privilege to control so much oil with such a small population, quite similar to the sheiks of the Middle East (who have often made their people quite wealthy compared to their less oil fortunate neighbors, as in the case of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait…
Alberta's sovereign wealth fund is worth $18B according to the video, IIRC, whereas Norway's is worth $1.45T.
A big difference is that Norway is a sovereign state and didn't have to deal with federal and inter-provincial politics like Alberta did. I have my doubts about whether or not a federal government that has done something like the National Energy Program would allow a province within their country to hold a sovereign wealth fund worth hundreds of billions, or even over a trillion dollars.
Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)
#24Norway is a European country, that no Western gov would colonize or disrupt. This is the primary factor around avoiding “corruption” by oil. Developing countries get baited and coerced into extractive economies that benefit the developed ones - modern colonialism. All this talk around foresight and smarts painfully ignores reality.
So Russia is colonized? Canada? Brazil? Heck the US for that matter? You act as if the middle east is the only collection of countries beholden to oil exports, and the only countries making what would otherwise be considered short-sighted moves based on those exports.
> Canada? Brazil? Heck the US for that matter?
Yes to all three. How could you have forgotten the colonisation of North America?
Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)
#25Norway is a European country, that no Western gov would colonize or disrupt. This is the primary factor around avoiding “corruption” by oil. Developing countries get baited and coerced into extractive economies that benefit the developed ones - modern colonialism. All this talk around foresight and smarts painfully ignores reality.
Compare and contrast US/Brit actions when: a) Norway nationalizes their oil b)Iran nationalizes their oil.
The idea that strong currency, due to oil exports, kills a manufacturing sector is named the "Dutch Disease" after the Netherlands experience post 1977.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease
So a country without colonial intervention was still severely harmed. I'd argue similar dynamics apply to resource intensive US states - e.g. West Virginia. The article is largely about how an Iraqi helped Norway avoid the same fate which is really cool.
Certainly over-throwing the Iranian government was terrible. But the key point is that the core economic problem of a resource sector 'crowding out' productive investment is a completely separate issue that occurs frequently in western countries that feature near zero political interference.
Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is this comment even meant to convey? The post is about a person who has foresignt and self-determination, what is Australia meant to do about it? Further, Australia is a lot more isolated than Norway. (Australian BTW)
I think it's meant to convey grief that Australia has allowed itself to be exploited by foreign miners, and waste the wealth that its natural resources could have generated.
hasn't Australia consistently had uninterrupted economic growth?
Australia has the highest median household wealth of any country in the world. https://www.statista.com/chart/19651/countries-with-highest-...
Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)
#27As a citizen of resource rich Australia this story of foresight and self-determination in a nation just about makes me weep.
I am not sure that comparing only sovereign wealth funds per capita tells the whole story. For instance Australia has a lot more private wealth saved up than Norway. At a lower GINI coefficient as well! I am also not sure that the major resource exports like iron ore and coal have the same ability to extract cartel rent extraction of oil, which is a lot more concentrated in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...
Wealth per capita $USD 2021:
Country Median Mean
Australia 238k 484k
Norway 118k 276k
The Australian compulsory super-annuation scheme has made Australian long term pension sustainability much better than the rest of the world. How much of the wealth that could have gone into a sovereign fund has gone into private savings instead? I don't know if Norway or Australia did better.
Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)
#28Norway is a European country, that no Western gov would colonize or disrupt. This is the primary factor around avoiding “corruption” by oil. Developing countries get baited and coerced into extractive economies that benefit the developed ones - modern colonialism. All this talk around foresight and smarts painfully ignores reality.
So Russia is colonized? Canada? Brazil? Heck the US for that matter? You act as if the middle east is the only collection of countries beholden to oil exports, and the only countries making what would otherwise be considered short-sighted moves based on those exports.
> is colonized?
It’s almost as if you’re being intentionally obtuse. The established term (that I used) is “modern” colonialism - it doesn’t necessarily involve physical colonization, rather systematic external control.
Russia has been tussling with the West for a prolonged period now. Regardless, they are the second largest exporter of oil to the USA. (1)
Canada is an American, Western country. Not sure why they would fall under my reasoning, which was specifically about non-Western countries. The USA is the one usually leading this oil-hungry warring - it’s even a meme at this point.
Brazil has various issues, most stemming from external influences corrupting the local political powers. Oil is just one of them, they are also coerced to deforest their country for European exports. (2)
(1) https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-24/russia-oi...
(2) https://e360.yale.edu/digest/major-portion-of-brazils-export...
Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
He was not sure. They moved for family reasons, as described in one of the first few paragraphs of the article.
He was telling everyone who would listen that Norway would find oil, and needed to prepare itself. > His was a lonely, contrarian voice. After examining exploration results, he wrote a report that warned Norway was sleeping, that even though no one had found oil yet, it was only a question of time. And time was short: the country’s leaders needed to prepare Norway to become an oil nation, but they were doing nothing.…
I imagine he came to that conclusion only after he reviewed the exploration reports, maps, and other internal documents within the ministries.
Re: An Iraqi who saved Norway from oil (2009)
#30This story was mentioned on a related discussion 2.5 weeks ago:
· Norway is wealthy because of oil. Can it give up fossil fuels? | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28576597#28577318 | 50 points | 66 comments
The previous discussion was also spawned in similar fashion:
· https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19594153 | 347 points | April 7, 2019 | 129 comments
· Battery Reality: There’s Nothing Better Than Lithium-Ion Coming Soon | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19590854#19593054 | 443 points | April 6, 2019 | 249 comments