Live data from Hacker News

Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

newyorker.com

21–30 of 101 posts

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#21
I hate things like this.

Climate change is an emergency, one that we're far behind on tackling. Talking about future technologies that are many decades away (if ever) is the opposite of helpful.

Imagine in 1943 the headline:

"Can hypersonic missiles put the brakes on Hitler's Army?"

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#22

In a fission reactor, I know the energy goes into the water, which creates steam and that turns a turbine. But it looks like fusion reactors use a near vacuum and high powered magnets. Once two atoms actually fuse, where does that energy "go"? Does the new helium atom just bounce around the containment unit? How do we actually extract meaningful energy from such a closed system? Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IT…

In both cases energy comes from neutrons. In the case of a fusion reactor, some neutrons escape plasma containment, presumably then heat up something outside, then heat transferred to water as usual.

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#23

In a fission reactor, I know the energy goes into the water, which creates steam and that turns a turbine. But it looks like fusion reactors use a near vacuum and high powered magnets. Once two atoms actually fuse, where does that energy "go"? Does the new helium atom just bounce around the containment unit? How do we actually extract meaningful energy from such a closed system? Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IT…

Heat is extracted to run a turbine, as with any reactor.

Where/how does the heat extraction take place? Are they planning to put water pipes in the walls of the confinement unit? I'm struggling to understand because in the diagrams I see a powerful magnetic field containing the particles, and then a near vacuum. Those two things alone must make heat transfer very difficult, no? I don't see where the produced energy gets extracted.

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#24

Nuclear fission is good enough, available right now, causes much fewer deaths than the alternatives, does not pollute the atmosphere, and accidents are extremely rare and nowhere near as dangerous as they've been portrayed. To wit, Fukushima: 1 dead from the nuclear accident, compared to 10000 from the tsunami.

All good qualities, but there's one problem - cost and time to rollout.

Even China, which internally can impose any policy it wants, can't build them fast enough to match e.g. wind in terms of GWh delivered. That has been the case since 2012 or so.

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#25

Probably not. ITER takes 440 megawatts of total power to generate 500 megawatts of power, at the cost of many years of development & billions of dollars. [1] [1] http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2021/10/how-close-is-nuclea...

No, read further down in that article. The gain is actually 0.57, certainly not > 1. And that is the plan, not anything demonstrated.

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#26

I used to be so excited about fusion, but then I actually learned more about it. Perhaps I'm missing something, but the benefits over fission seem underwhelming. It's about the same cost on a per-megawatt basis. Modern fission plants are totally safe. Nuclear waste is basically a non-problem, especially with the most recent technology. And fission has the huge benefit of being a mature, proven technology. What's the…

Don't you think that the fact that you can use sea water as input and you get hydrogen as output is a huge advantage over fission? Add to that the fact that there is no fukushima style meltdown in a fusion power plant. If something goes wrong, it just stops. Finally, contrary to fission, fusion power plants will be able to adjust their power output as fast as gaz power plants. It takes months to turn on or off a fiss…

>Don't you think that the fact that you can use sea water as input and you get hydrogen as output is a huge advantage over fission?

If it reduces the cost. But it doesn't seem to.

>Add to that the fact that there is no fukushima style meltdown in a fusion power plant. If something goes wrong, it just stops.

Same as the most recent fission plants.

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#27
post #5

Probably not. ITER takes 440 megawatts of total power to generate 500 megawatts of power, at the cost of many years of development & billions of dollars. [1] [1] http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2021/10/how-close-is-nuclea...

From your article it's more: "Okay, so ITER will have delivered in that full demonstration that we could have okay 500 Megawatt coming out of the 50 Megawatt we will put in."

No, it’s less. Please read the whole thing. The claimed gain is only 0.57.

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat is extracted to run a turbine, as with any reactor.

Sure, but how? What physical processes are being used? Most of us can understand how hot fision encased in water turns to steam and runs a steam engine (even if the reality is still quite complex). But how does the thin-plasma get converted to steam?

Fast neutrons leaving the confinement field. Most of the energy goes into the blanket between the first wall of the vessel and the confinement coils. This blanket is made of Be and Li. Be to act as a neutron multiplier and Li to breed tritium. The Li fission is actually energetically favorable and is a significant percentage of the power output. It is also the source of tritium fusion fuel. The byproducts of these reactions are helium. Liquid lithium can also double as a coolant in an efficient (high temperature differential) thermal cycle.

The rest of the power gets dumped into the divertor. This is a pretty violent section of the hull that has an enormous power density slamming into it (in ITER it will be similar to an atmospheric re-entry vehicle). There are games to play here though and the strike points can be blown up in size.

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#29

In a fission reactor, I know the energy goes into the water, which creates steam and that turns a turbine. But it looks like fusion reactors use a near vacuum and high powered magnets. Once two atoms actually fuse, where does that energy "go"? Does the new helium atom just bounce around the containment unit? How do we actually extract meaningful energy from such a closed system? Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IT…

[deleted]

Re: Can Nuclear Fusion Put the Brakes on Climate Change?

#30
post #11

I used to be so excited about fusion, but then I actually learned more about it. Perhaps I'm missing something, but the benefits over fission seem underwhelming. It's about the same cost on a per-megawatt basis. Modern fission plants are totally safe. Nuclear waste is basically a non-problem, especially with the most recent technology. And fission has the huge benefit of being a mature, proven technology. What's the…

> Modern fission plants are totally safe. Nuclear waste is basically a non-problem Just removing that as part of the rhetoric around the tech makes fusion invaluable.

That is true actually. Seems silly but it's actually a serious benefit! The main issue with fission is that people have become irrational about it. Maybe we get a fresh start with fusion.
Post reply on HN