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Re: undefined

#21

Post by barcoder » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

SamPatt wrote: post #15

I've been poor and rich, insanely busy and idle. Wealth removes the day to day stress, and that goes a long way. But it doesn't bring happiness itself. Same with work. Idleness is fun for a short while, then awful. We all know too much work is awful. Feeling like you have a purpose is the most important thing. I think the formula for happiness is something like: avoid poverty but recognize there are rapidly diminishi…

Totally agree with taking care of the body. It's damn hard, but pays dividends as you age.

Re: undefined

#22

Post by bloqs » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

bloqs wrote: post #16

Doing hard things improves you, but ultimately your personality is largely defined by the time you stop being a child. Industriousness is very much a personality dimension and it is very hard to change. Industriousness is a measure of how satisfied you are doing nothing. Highly industrious personalities are the most prevalent factor with success across the lifespan (in Western economies) and also seem less likely to…

I should add that industriousness is loosely conversely correlated with IQ (which is strongly correlated with Openness, effectively a measure of creativity). In this sense - people with good IQ, but off the charts Industriousness occupy all the top spots in the most demanding businesses. IQ is slightly more important than industriousness in academic success, but industriousness in a high amount is a close second, with other traits not coming close to being utterly critical.

Re: undefined

#23

Post by alshel » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

acta_non_verba wrote: post #12

alshel wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anecdotal: By nature of the structural relations of our society, the richest people are exploiting the labor of the poorest people, which leaves little reason for the poor people to coopperate.

Not anecdotal, just plain wrong!

Objectively not wrong, but self-evidently relative. Of course, if you somehow believe an entire society of exploiters is coherent, then maybe it seems rational to think hard work can infinitely “pay off.” But if you account for the need of exploiters to have somebody to exploit, then the idea doesn’t seem so sound.

Re: undefined

#24

Post by bloqs » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

bloqs wrote: post #22

bloqs wrote: post #16

Doing hard things improves you, but ultimately your personality is largely defined by the time you stop being a child. Industriousness is very much a personality dimension and it is very hard to change. Industriousness is a measure of how satisfied you are doing nothing. Highly industrious personalities are the most prevalent factor with success across the lifespan (in Western economies) and also seem less likely to…

I should add that industriousness is loosely conversely correlated with IQ (which is strongly correlated with Openness, effectively a measure of creativity). In this sense - people with good IQ, but off the charts Industriousness occupy all the top spots in the most demanding businesses. IQ is slightly more important than industriousness in academic success, but industriousness in a high amount is a close second, wit…

Lifetime happiness is a poor goal, but it seems that over a wide variety of of sources that a stable and successful family brings far greater meaning and fulfilment than any career can offer, which should be a priority.

Re: undefined

#25

Post by sailingparrot » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

Woberto wrote: post #14

I think this article is disingenuous, because not all things are difficult for all people. Some people really do work a few hours per week and still live a comfortable lifestyle, whether because they had a lot of help getting a comfy job (wealthy parents, lots of tutoring, nepotism, etc.) or maybe won the genetic lottery, while disadvantaged people may see it as not only difficult but maybe impossible to attain the s…

I think you are missing the point the article is trying to make (at least how I understood it).

The point is not that it is impossible to only work a few hours a week, it is indeed possible. The point is that if you do, you will not be happy, as you need difficulties, challenges and the feeling of progressing toward some goals to feel happy.

Yet, most people's objective is to indeed avoid difficulties. It seems today's holy grail is a high paying job, that requires little actual work.

The author is arguing that we should instead not try to find a way outside of difficulties, but to carve a path through them.

re-quoting from the article:

> "[...] Happiness is experienced largely in striving towards a goal, not in having attained things, because our nature is always to want to go on to the next endeavor.”-Albert Ellis

Re: undefined

#26

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

SamPatt wrote: post #15

I've been poor and rich, insanely busy and idle. Wealth removes the day to day stress, and that goes a long way. But it doesn't bring happiness itself. Same with work. Idleness is fun for a short while, then awful. We all know too much work is awful. Feeling like you have a purpose is the most important thing. I think the formula for happiness is something like: avoid poverty but recognize there are rapidly diminishi…

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#27

Post by paulpauper » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

m0llusk wrote: post #10

> It is all around us. > People no longer willing to work. What? What planet is this? What I have seen is people rearranging their lives by changing their careers, which is hard. Being aware of the gaps in your life and then changing to fill them is extremely hard. Giving up money and prestige to spend time with kids who are not always grateful, at least at first, can be extremely difficult. The big trend I am seeing…

There is a trend of the wealthy putting in longer hours than ever and working longer than ever even when they have more than enough money to live comfortably.

Re: undefined

#28

Post by tluyben2 » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

whatever1 wrote: post #17

tluyben2 wrote: post #5

Anecdotal: the richest self made people I know work the hardest, the poorest don't work at all or as little as possible, by choice (state pays). People who inherited wealth are the unhappiest and the people who do well but not enough to be rich (I guess some type of middle class) whine about it all and want to be rich to vacation the rest of their life (but will probably never get there as they never run, just chug a…

The rich people I know are the ones who were lucky to be born I a place/social class where opportunities were available to them, and maybe they worked hard. The first is a prerequisite. Hard work might be needed, but not always, specially if you are born in to a rich family.

I agree with that, but in my circles, and ffs I add anecdotal again (I am not a science journal), the ones who inherited are dead (3 of them drank themselves literally to death out of boredom in my small town), addicts or in jail. So I guess it can land well, but I would think rich parents/social class and then hard work would be better.

Re: undefined

#29

Post by WhisperingShiba » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

I'm not a fan of the criticism of people's disposition towards corporate work in this piece (ie. Not wanting to work for a company).

You know what form of ease I have given up? The one where I am trapped in a cage, working on someone else's vision, just for a regular paycheck. I choose to work as hard as I can. To suffer brutally. To not know if I will have money coming to me. I grow my own food. I make my own clothes. I 3D print all my tools, and assemble them from PCB level parts up (Hoping to be able to print basic circuit boards with conductive filament soon).

I consciously made the choice of radical freedom. I am going to be a Nietzsche Ubermensch, and I want to elevate everyone in my field in accordance with good faith and genuine love. We now have to tools to be genuine and part of society at the same time, we just have to get a critical number of people to choose this way of life and educate.

Re: undefined

#30

Post by paulpauper » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

Woberto wrote: post #14

I think this article is disingenuous, because not all things are difficult for all people. Some people really do work a few hours per week and still live a comfortable lifestyle, whether because they had a lot of help getting a comfy job (wealthy parents, lots of tutoring, nepotism, etc.) or maybe won the genetic lottery, while disadvantaged people may see it as not only difficult but maybe impossible to attain the s…

What do you mean by genetic lottery. It seems as if people with 'good genes' also work the hardest. Maybe this is because they get the most mileage from their effort, hence such positive feedback is a good incentive to keep working.