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My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

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Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#21

Post by rkk3 »

mrRandomGuy wrote: post #5
CoastalCoder wrote: post #2

I read through the article. I really, really hurt for its author, and pray that I never face similar circumstances. It sounds like he's stinging from his manager not expressing enough empathy. But with the information in the article, I don't really understand what Amazon should have done differently. Unfortunately the article was vague about just how much the author was underperforming. Also, while I'm no fan of Amaz…

A 'normal' company would understand that while a persons significant other is dying of a cancer, their work output may suffer as a result.

He was offered a Family Leave option, but the details aren't shared so it's hard to judge...

Terrible situation for the author, but expecting the company to eat the 500k/year he was costing them doesn't seem fair either.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#22

Post by gnabgib »

I remember this being posted as an Ask/Tell HN message a few weeks back.. although several people suggested at the time he might want to delete, since it could complicate things for him. (Which seems to have happened) It's a bit meta for an HN story to come back to HN.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#23

Post by illumin8 »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #2

I read through the article. I really, really hurt for its author, and pray that I never face similar circumstances. It sounds like he's stinging from his manager not expressing enough empathy. But with the information in the article, I don't really understand what Amazon should have done differently. Unfortunately the article was vague about just how much the author was underperforming. Also, while I'm no fan of Amaz…

I read the timeline and it seems like he started in mid-late 2018, was having performance problems throughout 2019, and didn't even get fired until mid-2020.

This is super generous, and while I have a lot of empathy for his personal situation, I think he could have had a much different outcome if he would have been more proactive about managing expectations: - Amazon does have a bereavement benefit that you definitely should take if you lose a brother like he did. - There are many opportunities to get help from doctors and medical professionals and document any disability you might have, which can help accessing disability benefits - While family medical leave is typically unpaid, if you are making $300K a year and were presumably making a lot less before you took the job, I think you can reasonably take a few months of unpaid family medical leave knowing your job will be there when you return.

I feel bad for the guy in this situation, but I think Amazon was very generous and gave them every opportunity to perform. How many years should a company wait for an underperforming employee to perform?

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#24

Post by asjldkfin »

ivraatiems wrote: post #18
asjldkfin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm paying a person $200-$300K to build a house and his wife gets cancer; it doesn't entitle him to keep my money. He gives it back because he didn't do his job. Same principle.

It's not about "your rights", it's about "what's right". Sure, you're within your rights. But when you're a trillion-dollar-market-cap company, you can eat $300k for a year and let the employee get through his grief and come back to you. Also, you edited your comment in a way that was deceptive, and didn't say the reason for the edit -- but your comparison is still flawed. $300k to you is pennies to Amazon.

It's not like Jeff Bezos personally fired him. His direct manager is not working with a trillion dollar market cap.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#25

Post by ivraatiems »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #14

I don‘t understand how someone smart enough to make 300.000 a year (That is an insane fortune to almost everyone, even in first world countries) feels entitled to a month-, year-long reduction of performance expectations because of personal tragedy. There are thousands waiting for his position and they would kill to get it.

Human beings are entitled to a little empathy from other human beings.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#26

Post by goldcd »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #2

I read through the article. I really, really hurt for its author, and pray that I never face similar circumstances. It sounds like he's stinging from his manager not expressing enough empathy. But with the information in the article, I don't really understand what Amazon should have done differently. Unfortunately the article was vague about just how much the author was underperforming. Also, while I'm no fan of Amaz…

I came away with similar sentiments. I've absolutely no issue with anybody criticising their employment practices in their warehouses or delivery arms - especially the use of contracting companies to isolate themselves from the questionable practices that seem required to get the job done.

However, if they're paying you $300k to do a job, it strikes me as fair that if you cease to do that job you get terminated. Also that's enough money for you to have put in place your own safety net if one wasn't provided by your employer in your benefits.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#27

Post by ivraatiems »

asjldkfin wrote: post #24
ivraatiems wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about "your rights", it's about "what's right". Sure, you're within your rights. But when you're a trillion-dollar-market-cap company, you can eat $300k for a year and let the employee get through his grief and come back to you. Also, you edited your comment in a way that was deceptive, and didn't say the reason for the edit -- but your comparison is still flawed. $300k to you is pennies to Amazon.

It's not like Jeff Bezos personally fired him. His direct manager is not working with a trillion dollar market cap.

That's another dodge. His direct manager is acting on behalf of the company, and in the interest of the company. The company should have behaved better. His direct manager also isn't paying the writer's salary out of a personal bank account.

The point is that companies ought to treat their employees with empathy even when it costs them. There are reasonable limits to that, yes, but $300k for Amazon is well within that bounds in my view.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#28

Post by jen20 »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #14

I don‘t understand how someone smart enough to make 300.000 a year (That is an insane fortune to almost everyone, even in first world countries) feels entitled to a month-, year-long reduction of performance expectations because of personal tragedy. There are thousands waiting for his position and they would kill to get it.

I don't understand how a company who has been paying someone 300,000/year (not a fortune for a FAANG, in the slightest) does not understand that by acting this way, they guarantee they will lose an employee when the situation is over, vs gaining loyalty from them.

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#29

Post by mrRandomGuy »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #14

I don‘t understand how someone smart enough to make 300.000 a year (That is an insane fortune to almost everyone, even in first world countries) feels entitled to a month-, year-long reduction of performance expectations because of personal tragedy. There are thousands waiting for his position and they would kill to get it.

God, sometimes reading the comments on this website makes me want to burn my eyeballs off. Like, why is there such a large chunk of people who literally go to bat for such shit practices?

Re: My Wife Was Dying of Brain Cancer. My Boss at Amazon Told Me to Perform or Quit

#30

Post by [deleted] »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #4

A tip: If anyone finds themselves in a tragic situation like this where they can’t work but also can’t afford to take leave, investigate your short and long-term disability benefits ASAP. Also read up on the documentation necessary to begin disability claims. Engage with a doctor early on who can document the severe depressive symptoms that are preventing work (which the author specifically cites in his anecdote). Do…

[deleted]
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