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Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app
21–30 of 179 posts
Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app
#22A very objective article, actually, and goes well to explain how this request to block the "voting app" isn't at all as controversial as portrayed in the Western MSM: > Second, this particular demand of the Russian authorities wasn't obviously unconstitutional, as they referred to a law that restricts campaigning after people start casting their votes. Laws against political campaigning while voting is underway exist…
Except that law does not apply for these elections that last several days https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4800223 The law allowing campaigning was passed in May 2021.
Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app
#23There was recently comments about this with questionable reasoning. There is an official statement now so everyone can make their own educated opinion. Please don't start a "telegram is not encrypted by default" shitstorm like in every other comment section about anything related to Telegram.
100% this. People sitting in their WhatsApps and Facebook messangers, not understanding why someone would like to use a better chat client because it's actually better, and also because your data doesn't end up at Google or Facebook. Probably ends up at the nsa though. But I care more about not being a product of Google.
WhatsApp does have pretty good E2E encryption though.
Its weak point were the backups. They were encrypted but the key was with WhatsApp and the data with Google or Apple. All a friendly secret government request away. Of course you can turn off backups but you don't know whether everyone in your group does.
However they have recently started to shore this up too. You can now choose to keep the key yourself. Of course you still don't know whether everyone in your chat group does this.. But even the alternative password method is much safer than before. According to FB it's stored in a HSM. Yes, we have to take their word for it. But if you use the numeric key only you will have it (and thus no way to recover the data which is a normal consequence of good encryption)
WhatsApp still leaks data for sure. Like all your contacts (even non WhatsApp users), and all your metadata, like when you're talking to whom.
But the content is pretty safe there IMO. Surprisingly so for Facebook. I don't like using it very much either but I'm Europe we simply don't have a choice. I limit its access to my contacts and photos by running it inside a 'work profile' on Android.
Messenger is a different story of course.
Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app
#24A very objective article, actually, and goes well to explain how this request to block the "voting app" isn't at all as controversial as portrayed in the Western MSM: > Second, this particular demand of the Russian authorities wasn't obviously unconstitutional, as they referred to a law that restricts campaigning after people start casting their votes. Laws against political campaigning while voting is underway exist…
But Telegram doesn't distribute apps, they blocked a "user" related to the app from using their network. The article does seem very reasonable, but I'd disagree that it's objective, since the author, Durov, runs Telegram and is writing to justify their actions.
Not the OP but I would say it's "objective" from telegrams perspective.
They shared their decision making process which I agreed with, not too sure what would have been a better choice in that situation.
Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app
#25From the looks of it both Android and Apple have a great deal of power, even for Telegram.
Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app
#26This is why apps suck. Steve Jobs got us into this mess by trying to monopolize the iPhone processor (and only allowed the web to bootstrap his platform). Complete control can be strong armed by dictators, and our spineless capitalists will bend to their will. The W3C needs to develop a standard for non-DOM, immediate mode painted, fully WASM apps that can access all of a device's hardware. Storage, cameras, network,…
W3C have zero power. Apple and Google have power.
Also I don't think that DOM presents any problem to security. It makes no sense to cut DOM or JS engine from your sandbox. You can use Canvas/WebGL/WebGPU to access GPU and draw anything in browser window. You can use WASM to have good speed. Tech is already there, you don't need W3C for it and DOM or JS is not really in the way. Storage, Cameras, GPS, Mulththreading, Gyros are available for web apps. Everything is already there.
Web apps miss notifications on Apple platform, home screen installation via API on Apple platform, better integration with OS on Apple platform (not sure about Android), but probably you want your password manager to be native app anyway.
Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app
#27A very objective article, actually, and goes well to explain how this request to block the "voting app" isn't at all as controversial as portrayed in the Western MSM: > Second, this particular demand of the Russian authorities wasn't obviously unconstitutional, as they referred to a law that restricts campaigning after people start casting their votes. Laws against political campaigning while voting is underway exist…
But Telegram doesn't distribute apps, they blocked a "user" related to the app from using their network. The article does seem very reasonable, but I'd disagree that it's objective, since the author, Durov, runs Telegram and is writing to justify their actions.
Yeah, true, the problem is basically becoming
Whether an app should block a bot/user when the app store blocks the bot app?
=> Whether an app / telegram with third party extension/bot ability would be considered as similar to an app store? => Whether a bot built on a private application ecosystem should be considered as an independent app?
Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app
#28This is why the web is so important: no app stores to pressure. It looks to be like this particular telegram bot could have been a web site?
If the app is a website or a webapp.
I am pretty sure the pressure will be given to the host and domain register.
Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app
#29Twitter is currently blocking the sharing of this post: https://twitter.com/keleftheriou/status/1441875098810519558?...
Twitter blocks telegra.ph links for the last 3 years
Re: Why Telegram had to follow Apple and Google when they suspended a voting app
#30Here is the thing: Durov lies.
There is no law in Russia which forces him to ban that channel, and no concept of “silent days” anymore.
Russian authorities has NEVER asked Telegram to remove anything. They pushed Google and Apple to remove links to Navalny application from search and from Apple Store (and Apple removes it only for Russia users, btw, unlike Telegram removes it for everyone), and Telegram was absolutely never in the picture and never asked to do a thing publicly. Just search Russian authorities speakers. They never bring Telegram into the picture.
Durov shamelessly lies. He pretends his application is a speech freedom, but it is not.
When there was a Telegram channel posting information about Belarus policemen who torture their own people — they ban it. When there is still a channel where white men posting personal details of women and attack them — no action.
Why Durov lies?
Because after SEC issued a claim that TON is a security and killed TON as a project, he owed ton of money to investors, including American. He had a real risk of being sued.
Where did he find money to pay investors back? He found them in Dubai, Qatar and Russia. He issued Telegram bonds and buyers of those bonds are affiliated with Russia structures like VTB Capital bank or Russian Government investment fund named “Russian Fund of Direct Investments”.
Moreover, few years ago, Russian authorities tried to ban Telegram. There was a massive campaign against the application, but then all things I mentioned happened, and SURPRISE Russia officially removed Telegram from the list of inappropriate applications and stoped attempts to ban it. Even now after the election, Russia published a list of websites whom they are going to ban because they didn’t stop spread of Navalny information. There WhatsApp and Viber in the list. But no Telegram.
For me it sounds very very directly: Durov lies. He takes money from Russia government to cover his costs from TON failure and in return he, for example, bans Navalny Telegram Bot even while he a) wasn’t asked; b) Apple and Google wasn’t asked to ask Telegram; c) law he mentioned doesn’t exist anymore.
There is no more free Telegram. Remove it now and stay safe