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Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

theguardian.com

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Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#21

Post by adewinter »

pphysch wrote: post #12
sofixa wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to name which ones do? China, US, probably Russia? Who else?

US, Germany, Russia, Brazil, China, India, etc. The truth is that giving convicted prisoners opportunities to work is probably a big net positive. I'm sure plenty of them would work for pennies rather than rot in a cell. The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself. But that requires far more investigation to establish than pearl-clutching about the u…

> than pearl-clutching about the universal practice of "forced labor".

So it's because everyone does it that it's "ok", then?

Or because you think it's better than "rotting in a cell"?

Whatever man. The issue is that the labour is _forced_. Give prisoners a choice to work or not and pay them, at market value, for their work.

If you're against choice and pay for prisoners you really shouldn't be embarrassed to just go ahead and call it what it is: slavery.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#22

Post by pphysch »

maxmamis wrote: post #16
pphysch wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US, Germany, Russia, Brazil, China, India, etc. The truth is that giving convicted prisoners opportunities to work is probably a big net positive. I'm sure plenty of them would work for pennies rather than rot in a cell. The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself. But that requires far more investigation to establish than pearl-clutching about the u…

> The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself. lol what? they're in a cage guarded by men with guns. what about that could possibly be anything other than "coercive?"

Yeah, prisons generally have armed guards.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#23

Post by ilamont »

pphysch wrote: post #20
ilamont wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just cotton. Fighting fires. Making License plates. Doing laundry. The difference is U.S. prisoners are convicted felons. Many volunteer for these jobs, such as the firefighters in California. Others are paid a small wage for their work or get reduced sentences. In China, it's members of specific minority groups such as Uyghurs who are singled out and put into concentration camps ... not because of what they have…

Both media sources rely on speculation from one individual, so why not just link that shared source?

One source? There are multiple sources, including eyewitness accounts, reports from Chinese and Uyghur exiles, western experts, and even satellite imagery:

"The findings of this research contradict Chinese officials' claims that all 'trainees' from so-called vocational training [centers] had 'graduated' by late 2019," report author Nathan Ruser wrote. "Instead, available evidence suggests that many extrajudicial detainees in Xinjiang's vast 're-education' network are now being formally charged and locked up in higher security facilities, including newly built or expanded prisons, or sent to walled factory compounds for coerced [labor] assignments."

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/24/916665128/report-satellite-im...

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#24

Post by cool_dude85 »

pphysch wrote: post #20
ilamont wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just cotton. Fighting fires. Making License plates. Doing laundry. The difference is U.S. prisoners are convicted felons. Many volunteer for these jobs, such as the firefighters in California. Others are paid a small wage for their work or get reduced sentences. In China, it's members of specific minority groups such as Uyghurs who are singled out and put into concentration camps ... not because of what they have…

Both media sources rely on speculation from one individual, so why not just link that shared source?

He'll post the source of both claims when it's time for the Rapture.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#25

Post by Pamar »

maxmamis wrote: post #16
pphysch wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US, Germany, Russia, Brazil, China, India, etc. The truth is that giving convicted prisoners opportunities to work is probably a big net positive. I'm sure plenty of them would work for pennies rather than rot in a cell. The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself. But that requires far more investigation to establish than pearl-clutching about the u…

> The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself. lol what? they're in a cage guarded by men with guns. what about that could possibly be anything other than "coercive?"

"Coercitive" would be something like "you make N license plate a day or don't get food".

"If you accept to do non-mandatory work in exchange of money/reduced sentence" it will be your choice.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#26

Post by pphysch »

adewinter wrote: post #21
pphysch wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US, Germany, Russia, Brazil, China, India, etc. The truth is that giving convicted prisoners opportunities to work is probably a big net positive. I'm sure plenty of them would work for pennies rather than rot in a cell. The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself. But that requires far more investigation to establish than pearl-clutching about the u…

> than pearl-clutching about the universal practice of "forced labor". So it's because everyone does it that it's "ok", then? Or because you think it's better than "rotting in a cell"? Whatever man. The issue is that the labour is _forced_. Give prisoners a choice to work or not and pay them, at market value, for their work. If you're against choice and pay for prisoners you really shouldn't be embarrassed to just go…

The allegation that Xinjiang has prisons and are allowing prisoners to work is almost certainly true. Like virtually every other major economy.

The allegation that the Xinjiang prisoners are actually innocent people being ethnically/religiously cleansed and forced into slavery has extremely little basis in reality, relying completely on claims from a tiny, unaccountable clique of Washington DC based ideologues (Zenz, et al) and ETIM lobbyists (WUC, et al).

However, the article deceptively uses the banal truth of the first allegation as a vehicle to imply that truth of the second, far more extreme allegation. These are classic disinformation methods employed to achieve political agendas.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#27

Post by hellbannedguy »

pphysch wrote: post #12
sofixa wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to name which ones do? China, US, probably Russia? Who else?

US, Germany, Russia, Brazil, China, India, etc. The truth is that giving convicted prisoners opportunities to work is probably a big net positive. I'm sure plenty of them would work for pennies rather than rot in a cell. The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself. But that requires far more investigation to establish than pearl-clutching about the u…

I think they should be able to work if they want.

I just don't want private entities profiting off prisoners our taxes house.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#28

Post by ilamont »

pphysch wrote: post #18
ilamont wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just over a year ago, at least two textile and fiber watchdogs faced scrutiny for their links to the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps (XPCC), a quasi-military organization that the U.S. government sanctioned in 2020 due to its role in operating mass internment camps and using forced labor in cotton fields. https://www.axios.com/global-textile-watchdogs-struggled-in-...

Sources: Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian, Darren Byler, and Adrian Zenz. This should be hilarious to anyone who has been scrutinizing the Xinjiang narratives closely.

This should be hilarious to anyone who has been scrutinizing the Xinjiang narratives closely.

"Hilarious" is not the reaction that comes to mind.

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#29

Post by [deleted] »

pphysch wrote: post #7
RegnisGnaw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your equating prison in the US to the camps in Xinjiang?

No, US prison camps are definitely worse due to their scale and history. > Many of these prisons had very recently been slave plantations, Angola and Mississippi State Penitentiary (known as Parchman Farm) among them. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-... Uncomfortable truth. Will probably get flagged.

[deleted]

Re: Food fraud and counterfeit cotton: detectives untangling the global supply chain

#30

Post by pphysch »

ilamont wrote: post #23
pphysch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both media sources rely on speculation from one individual, so why not just link that shared source?

One source? There are multiple sources, including eyewitness accounts, reports from Chinese and Uyghur exiles, western experts, and even satellite imagery: "The findings of this research contradict Chinese officials' claims that all 'trainees' from so-called vocational training [centers] had 'graduated' by late 2019," report author Nathan Ruser wrote. "Instead, available evidence suggests that many extrajudicial deta…

Okay, so far you've linked Adrian Zenz and Raytheon-mouthpiece ASPI.

Is it really so much to ask for a source that doesn't have an obvious and massive Conflict of Interest in destabilizing China?

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