Return of the Mac (2005) • Hacker News Board

Re: Return of the Mac (2005)

#21

Post by olivercameron » Mon, Aug 08, 2011, 6:04 AM UTC

TheEskimo wrote: post #17

pclark wrote: post #8

I have always used Macs and good lord, the days of Mac OS X being out but the processors not being Intel were truly some of the most embarrassing years for Apple computing. I remember owning (and loving - for some reason) an iBook G3 that was basically unusable for a few months whilst I awaited more RAM for it. I think this was when their laptops had 64Mb RAM but Mac OS X really needed 512Mb. And remember when Mac OS…

There are many valid reasons. For one, Apple computers are overpriced. The Air is a good deal and the MacBooks themselves aren't too overpriced, but the actual Mac computers are extraordinarily overpriced. They also offer hardware beyond what most users need. A lesser quality computer can browse the web just as well and can do it for a thousand fewer dollars. Price is just one minor point though. Windows still has do…

"I'll first say that "purchase a .. iPad for their next computer." is completely ridiculous. A tablet cannot fill the needs of a user yet"

You'd be surprised by how many people just use a computer to check their email and browse the web, all of which can be handled on an iPad simply and beautifully. My Wife and Mother have both stopped using computers altogether, iPad is all they need.

Re: Return of the Mac (2005)

#22

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 08, 2011, 6:05 AM UTC

walexander wrote: post #19

OK, someone convince me to go Mac. I've had essentially zero issues with Windows. I do 99% of my development in Linux (access my devbox through VNC). For desktop use, I have absolutely no problems. I work very fast zooming around with keyboard shortcuts. I don't get viruses or bloatware. Everything is calm and familiar. Every time I get my hands on a Mac, even to simply Google something, I immediately hit issues. Pas…

[deleted]

Re: Return of the Mac (2005)

#23

Post by Argorak » Mon, Aug 08, 2011, 6:05 AM UTC

TheEskimo wrote: post #17

pclark wrote: post #8

I have always used Macs and good lord, the days of Mac OS X being out but the processors not being Intel were truly some of the most embarrassing years for Apple computing. I remember owning (and loving - for some reason) an iBook G3 that was basically unusable for a few months whilst I awaited more RAM for it. I think this was when their laptops had 64Mb RAM but Mac OS X really needed 512Mb. And remember when Mac OS…

There are many valid reasons. For one, Apple computers are overpriced. The Air is a good deal and the MacBooks themselves aren't too overpriced, but the actual Mac computers are extraordinarily overpriced. They also offer hardware beyond what most users need. A lesser quality computer can browse the web just as well and can do it for a thousand fewer dollars. Price is just one minor point though. Windows still has do…

I think you put two arguments in one, one valid, one not so. I don't think apples are "overpriced" today. They are at the upper part of the price range because they want to be there, but they are competitive. I except accessories from the list, RAM for example is a rip-off in the official store.

Its the "beyond what most users need" thats the important part. A prime example for MacBook (Pros) are Batteries: they come with good, high-capacity batteries that are expensive at any manufacturer. If I buy the strong-battery option at Dell, it gets expensive quick as well. If I buy the best screen option, the same. The problem with Apple is: they don't allow you to settle for the "second best". You can only buy the best option that they will sell you in a machine class, only rarely a second one.

At thats my main reasons for not suggesting a Mac to everyone. I know a lot of people that want a notebook, but they don't hours of battery life and are on a budget. With a cheaper battery, they could easily save a hundred+ Euros. Why should they waste it on a machine that does not allow them to do so? Macs are just not the machines for people on a budget anymore.

Re: Return of the Mac (2005)

#24

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 08, 2011, 6:08 AM UTC

walexander wrote: post #19

OK, someone convince me to go Mac. I've had essentially zero issues with Windows. I do 99% of my development in Linux (access my devbox through VNC). For desktop use, I have absolutely no problems. I work very fast zooming around with keyboard shortcuts. I don't get viruses or bloatware. Everything is calm and familiar. Every time I get my hands on a Mac, even to simply Google something, I immediately hit issues. Pas…

[deleted]

Re: Return of the Mac (2005)

#25

Post by Argorak » Mon, Aug 08, 2011, 6:10 AM UTC

walexander wrote: post #19

OK, someone convince me to go Mac. I've had essentially zero issues with Windows. I do 99% of my development in Linux (access my devbox through VNC). For desktop use, I have absolutely no problems. I work very fast zooming around with keyboard shortcuts. I don't get viruses or bloatware. Everything is calm and familiar. Every time I get my hands on a Mac, even to simply Google something, I immediately hit issues. Pas…

I am sorry to say so, but as a constant switcher: all problems you describe are problems that are as easily solved on a Mac as on Windows. Yes, it is CTRL vs. APPLE and there is a Button for accessing the desktop (its on a different key for some machines. For mine, its F3). It won't sell you on a mac, but: it takes me roughly 5 Minutes to get it right again after switching and it took me about half a day to get it right. Its a problem of constant use and memory.

I also wouldn't recommend one solution over the other. I prefer APPLE (or COMMAND) as a command key more, but I'm sure thats because its positioned more favorably on the mac keyboard.

Re: Return of the Mac (2005)

#26

Post by lallysingh » Mon, Aug 08, 2011, 6:23 AM UTC

walexander wrote: post #19

OK, someone convince me to go Mac. I've had essentially zero issues with Windows. I do 99% of my development in Linux (access my devbox through VNC). For desktop use, I have absolutely no problems. I work very fast zooming around with keyboard shortcuts. I don't get viruses or bloatware. Everything is calm and familiar. Every time I get my hands on a Mac, even to simply Google something, I immediately hit issues. Pas…

As for leaving windows, just leave. It doesn't matter where. There's a pain to using windows you just get used to, it's just more of a subtle irritation that comes from using a system where the creators didn't want to make something particularly good. It's literally painful for me to use windows now that I don't do it very often anymore. There are just so many little things that hurt that I just can't do it. I start yelling at the screen about random UI choices rather quickly.

The Mac is honestly more pleasurable to use. Copy/Paste are Apple-C, Apple-V, and the other keyboard shortcuts are honestly more sensible than on windows. Not perfect -- there is no such thing as a perfect mapping, but very good. You can tell that someone on the UI side (or rather, many someones) actually cares about the little things that make the system easy to use.

With all that said, why not use a linux box? On major platforms (e.g. lenovo), they're reasonably well behaved on laptops, and really, it's more than good enough (in my book, windows is playing catch-up with ubuntu in usability now) for daily use.

(for the record: Ubuntu desktop at work, Mac work & home laptops, solaris desktop at home (long story))

Re: Return of the Mac (2005)

#27

Post by lallysingh » Mon, Aug 08, 2011, 6:28 AM UTC

pizza wrote: post #11

Why do hackers like Macs that much? Wouldn't it be better to use cross-platform tools?

Macs are high-end machines and come with a sane OS on them, with support from the manufacturer.

The last two issues together: sane OS, manufacturer support, basically knock out the rest of the market.

Re: Return of the Mac (2005)

#28

Post by kayoone » Mon, Aug 08, 2011, 6:45 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #24

walexander wrote: post #19

OK, someone convince me to go Mac. I've had essentially zero issues with Windows. I do 99% of my development in Linux (access my devbox through VNC). For desktop use, I have absolutely no problems. I work very fast zooming around with keyboard shortcuts. I don't get viruses or bloatware. Everything is calm and familiar. Every time I get my hands on a Mac, even to simply Google something, I immediately hit issues. Pas…

[deleted]

i'm sorry, but the least expensive 27" iMac is $1700, a comparable monitor would be the Dell Ultrasharp u2711 which is about $850. So while the iMac isnt that bad of a deal, "not much more than the cost of a comparable monitor" is just false.

Re: Return of the Mac (2005)

#29

Post by jab » Mon, Aug 08, 2011, 6:46 AM UTC

walexander wrote: post #19

OK, someone convince me to go Mac. I've had essentially zero issues with Windows. I do 99% of my development in Linux (access my devbox through VNC). For desktop use, I have absolutely no problems. I work very fast zooming around with keyboard shortcuts. I don't get viruses or bloatware. Everything is calm and familiar. Every time I get my hands on a Mac, even to simply Google something, I immediately hit issues. Pas…

I'm a Unix person. My desktops still run Linux, and my laptops use to run Linux, too. I switched to Mac laptops simply because they are now good Unix boxes that actually work well on laptops.

Linux on laptops was inevitably painful in one way or another, and with a small price premium, I get the best of both worlds with Mac laptops now.

Re: Return of the Mac (2005)

#30

Post by tintin » Mon, Aug 08, 2011, 7:11 AM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #27

pizza wrote: post #11

Why do hackers like Macs that much? Wouldn't it be better to use cross-platform tools?

Macs are high-end machines and come with a sane OS on them, with support from the manufacturer. The last two issues together: sane OS, manufacturer support, basically knock out the rest of the market.

Mac support is known to be one of the worst. Linux and Windows are also sane OSs. And there are a lot of high-end machines on the market. So I disagree with you.

All Apple owners I ever met were showing off. For them it's status to have a Mac. They think that when they have a Mac they belong to the group. Or they think they need to have a Mac because they are designers/hackers.

This feeling of belonging to a group knocks out the rest of the market.

I'm not saying Apples are crap. But to me they are not better than lets say a nice Lenovo Thinkpad installed with Ubuntu. In the end of the day it's just a tool to get the job done.

(Why do all iPhone owners put there phone on the table while having a meeting? Just turn the thing off and put it in your wallet!)