In the original proposal for the ARC reactor, they were proposing making the magnet separable so the top and bottom of the reactor could be separated and the vacuum vessel removed. (See pg. 5 of https://library.psfc.mit.edu/catalog/reports/2010/15ja/15ja0... ) It doesn't look like they are targeting that here. Does anyone know if that is ARC (not SPARC) specific, or if that has been abandoned?
The article says this is from an "MIT-CFS collaboration" which is "on track to build the world’s first fusion device that can create and confine a plasma that produces more energy than it consumes. That demonstration device, called SPARC, is targeted for completion in 2025." So, sounds like it's for SPARC.
MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion energy
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Re: MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion energy
#22In case others are wondering, looks like this is for SPARC.
FTA: This "MIT-CFS collaboration...on track to build the world’s first fusion device that can create and confine a plasma that produces more energy than it consumes. That demonstration device, called SPARC, is targeted for completion in 2025."
CFS: https://cfs.energy/technology
(edit: clarification)
Re: MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion energy
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
The running joke has always been that “Fusion is 20 years away,” and has been, for the last 50 years. I really want this to work. I am a bit concerned, with how “the old guard” will react, once we have successful, productive, fusion. I foresee an astroturf NIMBY campaign against construction of fusion plants.
It wasn't a joke, it was always based on an adequate level of funding. Everything is always off in the future if it never gets funded.
Re: MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion energy
#24[0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-017-02641-7
Just as a note, the max B field here is 600T
Re: MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion energy
#25The thumbnail of the youtube video made me laugh Smaller. Smarter. Sooner. 2018 Currently 2021 where is my fusion energy? But this time must be different, after this advance we are only a few years away from fusion energy?
The running joke has always been that “Fusion is 20 years away,” and has been, for the last 50 years. I really want this to work. I am a bit concerned, with how “the old guard” will react, once we have successful, productive, fusion. I foresee an astroturf NIMBY campaign against construction of fusion plants.
They forgot to say that it is not the H2O that comes out of your tap. The earth is especially not full of tritium.
Re: MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion energy
#26The thumbnail of the youtube video made me laugh Smaller. Smarter. Sooner. 2018 Currently 2021 where is my fusion energy? But this time must be different, after this advance we are only a few years away from fusion energy?
The running joke has always been that “Fusion is 20 years away,” and has been, for the last 50 years. I really want this to work. I am a bit concerned, with how “the old guard” will react, once we have successful, productive, fusion. I foresee an astroturf NIMBY campaign against construction of fusion plants.
Nuclear ruined it's own reputation for generations though hopeful not as long as they'll have to care for the waste we already have.
Re: MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion energy
#27These university press releases are always very positively framed. This one makes the new magnet seem incredibly promising and fusion seem like almost an inevitability now, but decades of failure have us conditioned for skepticism. What's the catch this time?
Re: MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion energy
#28The advances enable a magnetic field strength that would otherwise require 40x more volume using conventional technology - doesn’t the reduced volume imply the plasma temperature would also increase significantly? Or is the magnetic field strong enough to protect the walls of the chamber?
My understanding is that the volume of the magnet is smaller and thus the entire reactor size goes down significantly leading to lower cost. ITER was designed to use weaker electromagnets and therefore needs a massive building and tons of cranes and a massive budget.
Unfortunately, the ARC design also had 40x worse power density than a PWR primary reactor vessel.
Re: MIT-designed project achieves major advance toward fusion energy
#29These university press releases are always very positively framed. This one makes the new magnet seem incredibly promising and fusion seem like almost an inevitability now, but decades of failure have us conditioned for skepticism. What's the catch this time?
Q (the ratio of energy out to energy in) has improved by about four orders of magnitude since controlled fusion was first achieved, and it's been a slow, at least reasonably steady march since the middle of the 20th century to achieve that progress. The current record-holding Q for magnetic confinement is around 0.67, so we need well under one more order of magnitude to get to the point of "theoretical break-even" (Q>1) -- we're most of the way there. A plant just barely better than break-even probably wouldn't be commercially viable, though, and while estimates vary, that point is probably somewhere in the 10-30 range, so we have maybe another order of magnitude to go after break-even. I don't think there's anything to suggest that after decades of progress we'll suddenly stop being able to make more.
It's true that things have slowed down somewhat in the last 10-15 years, but most of the blame there goes to the need, in order to continue moving forward, to build bigger and bigger reactors, and the need to divert resources to that goal (mostly ITER). To the extent that promises of going faster have turned out to be hot air, it seems like they've mostly been in the form of novel approaches that do fusion in some fundamental new way that avoids the need to build an ITER-like thing. These approaches seem to often involve lots of unknowns, and end up getting bogged down in practical issues once they're actually tried (surprise plasma instabilities and so on).
Recent advances in materials science (mostly REBCO magnets) and computing, though, offer a path to progress on the regular, bog-standard flavor of magnetic confinement fusion (tokamaks) on a smaller scale -- that's what this is. The nice thing about that is that the plasma physics here are very well understood, and have been heavily researched using conventional/not-super-conducting magnets that won't ever achieve break-even, but create identical plasma conditions inside the reactor (MIT Alcator C-Mod is effectively the conventional-magnet predecessor to this project). Up until now, the only real question was whether or not they could build strong-enough REBCO magnets, and now they have, so this is all good news and reason for optimism.
Of course, commercial viability is a whole other question involving lots of questions besides physics. But the physics here seem to not be in serious doubt, unlike some of the proposals from other startups that are more exotic.