Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Eolang, an Experimental Object-Oriented Programming Language Based on 𝜑-Calculus

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 35 posts

Re: Eolang, an Experimental Object-Oriented Programming Language Based on 𝜑-Calculus

#21

Post by [deleted] »

iainmerrick wrote: post #20
jaytaylor wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this Java hate? Please chime in if I'm missing something, otherwise.. There's nothing inherently wrong with writing a programming language on top of the JVM or JVM-based build tools. It's a time tested platform in very widespread use, and in many instances the JVM is an excellent target to get things going. The derision emanating from the low effort comment you submitted is misguided and / or misplaced. This is co…

It’s about Maven, not Java. Having used Maven a bit in the past, I agree, it was awful. Simple tasks were complicated and error-prone, complex tasks were impossible. It seems reasonable to ask why a trivial example program needs a huge boilerplate XML file.

[deleted]

Re: Eolang, an Experimental Object-Oriented Programming Language Based on 𝜑-Calculus

#22

Post by Fellshard »

baryphonic wrote: post #12
Fellshard wrote: post #9

Hmm. I'm intrigued what they come up with. The creator is something of a firebrand, who tends to 'no true scotsmen' other OOP languages. His ideas are interesting, but often seem impractical in other languages. If he comes up with something effective, I suspect it will indeed feel similar to lisp, and not in a bad way. Even what he's showing right now feels similar to Wisp-syntax with an OO twist.

"OOP" is itself such an overloaded term that a Smalltalk coder and a C++ coder and a Python coder can each say she works with objects, and yet have entirely different design and organization. By formalizing his definition of OO, Yegor (who is a firebrand for sure[0], but says enough interesting things that I've read a couple of his books and several blog posts) is dispensing with "no true Scotsman" fallacies: if he c…

Yep, that's the kind of thing I try to consider in this subject. I think his take is intriguing and distinct enough to possibly have merit, but it's difficult to discuss it directly with the creator because... well, it's hard to discuss benefits and difficulties with a firebrand.

For what it's worth, I suspect Yegor's view is somewhat closer to Erlang as well, given both end up collapsing into a model of both functional purity and message-dispatching, if I understand them both accurately.

Re: Eolang, an Experimental Object-Oriented Programming Language Based on 𝜑-Calculus

#23

Post by diskzero »

macintux wrote: post #7
Joker_vD wrote: post #6

> EO is based on 𝜑-calculus (if you want to see its description, join this Telegram chat: @polystat_org). Because putting this description into a doc/MATHS.md file inside the repo itself is too easy. Also, a tip for anyone who decides to put out there a programming language with highly exotic operational semantics: please don't forget to put a quick overview of that semantics in the "Tutorial" section. I suspect mos…

> Because putting this description into a doc/MATHS.md file inside the repo itself is too easy. Agreed. Even a link to Wikipedia would be useful: 𝜑-calculus is not the easiest thing to search for, and I'm certainly not going to sign up for a Telegram account just to find out what this is all about.

In the intolerant spirit of the EOLANG designers, signing up for a Telegram account to learn about a language is something I won't tolerate.

Re: Eolang, an Experimental Object-Oriented Programming Language Based on 𝜑-Calculus

#24

Post by discreteevent »

Joker_vD wrote: post #6

> EO is based on 𝜑-calculus (if you want to see its description, join this Telegram chat: @polystat_org). Because putting this description into a doc/MATHS.md file inside the repo itself is too easy. Also, a tip for anyone who decides to put out there a programming language with highly exotic operational semantics: please don't forget to put a quick overview of that semantics in the "Tutorial" section. I suspect mos…

This example helped me:

[r] > circle

  mul 2 3.14 r > perimeter

  mul 3.14 r r > area
The first line creates an “abstract” object named circle. It is abstract, because one of its attributes r is “free”. It’s not specified in this object and that’s why the object can’t be used as is, it has to be copied with r specified. For example, this is the circle c with the radius 30:

circle 30 > c

( Which would be like c=new circle(30) )

https://www.yegor256.com/2020/11/24/objects-without-methods....

Re: Eolang, an Experimental Object-Oriented Programming Language Based on 𝜑-Calculus

#25

Post by lfnoise »

theamk wrote: post #13
Joker_vD wrote: post #6

> EO is based on 𝜑-calculus (if you want to see its description, join this Telegram chat: @polystat_org). Because putting this description into a doc/MATHS.md file inside the repo itself is too easy. Also, a tip for anyone who decides to put out there a programming language with highly exotic operational semantics: please don't forget to put a quick overview of that semantics in the "Tutorial" section. I suspect mos…

They do have a paper in the repo: https://github.com/cqfn/eo/tree/master/paper According to it, "𝜑-calculus" is something they made up for the eolang and not a standard term. Here is my take on that calculus based on reading through section 3 in the paper. Note the paper is pretty weird and likes to make its own notation, so it is possible I got some things wrong: It is starts with a pretty standard immutable langua…

reminds me a bit of Piccola: http://scg.unibe.ch/research/piccola/

Re: Eolang, an Experimental Object-Oriented Programming Language Based on 𝜑-Calculus

#26

Post by colonwqbang »

Joker_vD wrote: post #6

> EO is based on 𝜑-calculus (if you want to see its description, join this Telegram chat: @polystat_org). Because putting this description into a doc/MATHS.md file inside the repo itself is too easy. Also, a tip for anyone who decides to put out there a programming language with highly exotic operational semantics: please don't forget to put a quick overview of that semantics in the "Tutorial" section. I suspect mos…

I think it's supposed to be a parody? It's some made up OOP version of lambda calculus.

The telegram chat thing is probably a reference to languages like Elm who keep the community discussions on Slack and other proprietary platforms which require login to view.

Re: Eolang, an Experimental Object-Oriented Programming Language Based on 𝜑-Calculus

#27

Post by compressedgas »

theamk wrote: post #13
Joker_vD wrote: post #6

> EO is based on 𝜑-calculus (if you want to see its description, join this Telegram chat: @polystat_org). Because putting this description into a doc/MATHS.md file inside the repo itself is too easy. Also, a tip for anyone who decides to put out there a programming language with highly exotic operational semantics: please don't forget to put a quick overview of that semantics in the "Tutorial" section. I suspect mos…

They do have a paper in the repo: https://github.com/cqfn/eo/tree/master/paper According to it, "𝜑-calculus" is something they made up for the eolang and not a standard term. Here is my take on that calculus based on reading through section 3 in the paper. Note the paper is pretty weird and likes to make its own notation, so it is possible I got some things wrong: It is starts with a pretty standard immutable langua…

Reminded me of http://soft.vub.ac.be/research/agora/

Re: Eolang, an Experimental Object-Oriented Programming Language Based on 𝜑-Calculus

#28

Post by dathinab »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #14

This looks really promisi—wait, maven?! ^W

You didn't reach the part where you are told:

- It's parsed into an XML document.

- And: There are a number of XSL transformations that need to be done with the XML document in order to make it ready for compilation.

- Plus: Then transforming the XML document into a collection of .java files.

But hey, if this are the tools you are familiar with why not use them for you pet toy.

Re: Eolang, an Experimental Object-Oriented Programming Language Based on 𝜑-Calculus

#30

Post by scrubs »

Fellshard wrote: post #9

Hmm. I'm intrigued what they come up with. The creator is something of a firebrand, who tends to 'no true scotsmen' other OOP languages. His ideas are interesting, but often seem impractical in other languages. If he comes up with something effective, I suspect it will indeed feel similar to lisp, and not in a bad way. Even what he's showing right now feels similar to Wisp-syntax with an OO twist.

Well yes. Early in the day I had a brief affair with Eiffel. But alas not practical. On the do not list the one I'm most suspicious about is no mutability. I'm willing to listen; looking forward to more here. C'mon we're gonna toss btree, hashing etc?
Post reply on HN