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Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

bbc.com

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Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#21

Post by pwinnski »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #8
mrlonglong wrote: post #5

Lowering sped limits within towns and residential areas increases the chances of a pedestrian surviving a collision with a vehicle, especially heavy good vehicles. Too many kids and old people are dying just because they walk out into the road without looking.

Lowering speed limits doesn't do much except maybe in North Korea or somewhere else where draconian enforcement to actually get compliance is palatable. It's well understood in civil engineering circles that people in aggregate drive what they consider to be the reasonable speed for the road and if you want slower traffic you need to play visual tricks to make that happen. On multi-lane roads lowering speed limits ma…

In civil engineering circles, it is well understood that there are many measures that can reduce "natural" speeds, like "The number of street parking bays is being halved and ... Cycle lanes have increased and streets are being redesigned to make districts more pedestrian friendly," from the linked article.

I'm not sure how you got the wrong idea that this is "[c]hanging a bunch of signs," especially since HN guidelines suggest I assume you read the linked article.

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#22

Post by banana_giraffe »

1-more wrote: post #20

Kinda want to go rip around Paris in the middle of the lane on my bike now. Look you can't get mad I'm going over the limit!!

Can bicycle riders not get speeding tickets in Paris? Around me in the states, the cops can, and do occasionally, ticket bicycle riders going over the speed limit in school zones (20 mph at certain times of the day).

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#23

Post by throwaway0a5e »

pwinnski wrote: post #21
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lowering speed limits doesn't do much except maybe in North Korea or somewhere else where draconian enforcement to actually get compliance is palatable. It's well understood in civil engineering circles that people in aggregate drive what they consider to be the reasonable speed for the road and if you want slower traffic you need to play visual tricks to make that happen. On multi-lane roads lowering speed limits ma…

In civil engineering circles, it is well understood that there are many measures that can reduce "natural" speeds, like "The number of street parking bays is being halved and ... Cycle lanes have increased and streets are being redesigned to make districts more pedestrian friendly," from the linked article. I'm not sure how you got the wrong idea that this is "[c]hanging a bunch of signs," especially since HN guideli…

Read between the lines.

If they were breaking out the heavy equipment and actually changing the infrastructure they would be trumpeting it as an infrastructure initiative, urban makeover/revitalization or something like that.

To assume that this is more than a simple regulatory change is to assume that the Paris government is wholly staffed with people too stupid to capitalize politically on a major infrastructure change.

They are messaging this as a regulatory change and talking about how they're adding bike lanes (already rolling out steadily for a long time as roads get repainted and resurfaced) and continued phase out of cars from the city center.

Nothing will change, because nothing is changing. All the stuff they're talking about is stuff they're already doing. They're just changing some signs in other parts of the city as well as though that's expected to change anything (which it's not).

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#24

Post by [deleted] »

chobytes wrote: post #14
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lowering speed limits doesn't do much except maybe in North Korea or somewhere else where draconian enforcement to actually get compliance is palatable. It's well understood in civil engineering circles that people in aggregate drive what they consider to be the reasonable speed for the road and if you want slower traffic you need to play visual tricks to make that happen. On multi-lane roads lowering speed limits ma…

Ubiquitous traffic cameras. Or perhaps GPS based speed limits (or speed warnings) if youre really concerned with fines.

[deleted]

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#25

Post by paddez »

banana_giraffe wrote: post #22
1-more wrote: post #20

Kinda want to go rip around Paris in the middle of the lane on my bike now. Look you can't get mad I'm going over the limit!!

Can bicycle riders not get speeding tickets in Paris? Around me in the states, the cops can, and do occasionally, ticket bicycle riders going over the speed limit in school zones (20 mph at certain times of the day).

I'm not sure about Paris specifically - but across the channel in the UK, speed limits do not apply to bicycles as the legislation which governs speed limits on public roads applies only to mechanically propelled vehicles.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2014/jul/2...

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#26

Post by Agingcoder »

greatgib wrote: post #19

Here in Paris, it is becoming a nightmare. The cityhall is led by incompetent and for a few years now they have started to do "media visible" demagogic actions without real thinking or discussion with the population. For cars for example, they don't really try to be intelligent and have the most efficient and fast mix of transportation. They just try to annoy as much as possible the car drivers even when it was not j…

Well, to add some nuance, cars are not fast anyway because of the bad traffic, the city is extremely polluted (there are days where we are told to stay inside) so cars are indeed a problem, and people are leaving for many reasons, one of them being that the city is too expensive.

The metro is not unreliable - it can be very crowded, but it's ok. I understand the regional trains can be very unreliable.

As to the politics of the city, the current mayor is a very divisive person, so you will find people who really like her, just as you will find people who really dislike her (parent comment ).

She did make a number of mistakes, but Paris is not dying in any way because of her. Sure, the city is not very lively these days, but it's mostly because of the consequences of covid ('I want a garden', 'I need a health pass to go to a restaurant', etc), and people wondering whether it's worth paying so much money to live and moving out.

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#27

Post by DaveExeter »

pasabagi wrote: post #13
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lowering speed limits doesn't do much except maybe in North Korea or somewhere else where draconian enforcement to actually get compliance is palatable. It's well understood in civil engineering circles that people in aggregate drive what they consider to be the reasonable speed for the road and if you want slower traffic you need to play visual tricks to make that happen. On multi-lane roads lowering speed limits ma…

I think the law is simply way too soft on this. If you're using heavy machinery in public areas, it should be absolutely mandatory that you follow the law, and are capable of doing so. People who either do not or cannot should simply not drive. If somebody was driving a digger on a public street in a dangerous and unlawful manner, you'd expect them to end up in court, and you'd certainly expect more than just a fine…

> People who either do not or cannot should simply not drive.

I have the opposite attitude.

People who cannot use their own judgement as to what speed to drive or when a stop sign can be safely disregarded should not drive.

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#28

Post by throwaway0a5e »

Agingcoder wrote: post #26
greatgib wrote: post #19

Here in Paris, it is becoming a nightmare. The cityhall is led by incompetent and for a few years now they have started to do "media visible" demagogic actions without real thinking or discussion with the population. For cars for example, they don't really try to be intelligent and have the most efficient and fast mix of transportation. They just try to annoy as much as possible the car drivers even when it was not j…

Well, to add some nuance, cars are not fast anyway because of the bad traffic, the city is extremely polluted (there are days where we are told to stay inside) so cars are indeed a problem, and people are leaving for many reasons, one of them being that the city is too expensive. The metro is not unreliable - it can be very crowded, but it's ok. I understand the regional trains can be very unreliable. As to the polit…

>The metro is not unreliable - it can be very crowded, but it's ok. I understand the regional trains can be very unreliable.

The regional trains are exactly the ones that need to be reliable in order to replace cars.

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#29

Post by anoonmoose »

DaveExeter wrote: post #27
pasabagi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the law is simply way too soft on this. If you're using heavy machinery in public areas, it should be absolutely mandatory that you follow the law, and are capable of doing so. People who either do not or cannot should simply not drive. If somebody was driving a digger on a public street in a dangerous and unlawful manner, you'd expect them to end up in court, and you'd certainly expect more than just a fine…

> People who either do not or cannot should simply not drive. I have the opposite attitude. People who cannot use their own judgement as to what speed to drive or when a stop sign can be safely disregarded should not drive.

There are certain extremely predictable problems that occur when you allow people to use their own judgement to decide whether or not they need to follow rules/laws/etc., and I for one do not enjoy the outcomes of those problems.

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#30

Post by true_religion »

DaveExeter wrote: post #27
pasabagi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the law is simply way too soft on this. If you're using heavy machinery in public areas, it should be absolutely mandatory that you follow the law, and are capable of doing so. People who either do not or cannot should simply not drive. If somebody was driving a digger on a public street in a dangerous and unlawful manner, you'd expect them to end up in court, and you'd certainly expect more than just a fine…

> People who either do not or cannot should simply not drive. I have the opposite attitude. People who cannot use their own judgement as to what speed to drive or when a stop sign can be safely disregarded should not drive.

How would you codify that into law?
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