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Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

newyorker.com

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Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#21

Post by inciampati »

hammock wrote: post #16

>It is this weighing of risks and benefits, in all their many facets, that informs the chorus of health-care professionals imploring their families, neighbors, co-workers, and friends, along with everyone else, to please get vaccinated against covid-19. They urge vaccination because they see its ratio of risks to benefits as incredibly, unbelievably good. For someone who has already had Covid and recovered, there is…

Maybe those who disagree with you think that you should make a more subtle argument. For those who are convalescent, the risk / benefit ratio of the vaccine is very different than for someone who is immunologically naive. And, to my knowledge, the vaccines have not been carefully validated in a convalescent population, on the same level as the clinical trials on which their efficacy estimates are founded. The idea of getting an illness and then immediately double vaccinating oneself against it should give any rational person pause. This is at very least marginally beneficial, and at worst downright risky. A single dose might make sense, but there should be no rush to apply one.

The chance of an otherwise healthy COVID-19 convalescent person ending up hospitalized from reinfection appears to be almost immeasurably low. But the risk of a severe reaction to the vaccine is low but not immeasurable. And it could be worse for someone whose immune system is primed against the vaccine, but that's also not clear.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#22

Post by hammock »

User23 wrote: post #17
void_mint wrote: post #4

Those that believe the vaccines are dangerous aren't swayed by rational thinking.

Being dishonest isn't a hallmark of rational thinking either. The Covid-19 vaccines are observably dangerous to some persons[1], however rare that danger may be. The rational thing to do is to weigh the risk versus the benefit. If you really want hesitant persons to get vaccinated, you're going to get a lot farther by being honest about the risks of the vaccines, the risks of Covid-19, and showing why, for their circ…

Amen

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#23

Post by spinach »

void_mint wrote: post #4

Those that believe the vaccines are dangerous aren't swayed by rational thinking.

In the very first paragraph, the doctor gives a reason why people aren't getting vaccinated, and it's because they've heard of bad outcomes and are simply avoiding something they know to be a potential immediate risk. That is not irrational thinking.

"I often ask them why, after the devastation we’ve seen this year, they’ve chosen not to get vaccinated. Sometimes their answers are weird or conspiratorial. But most people say that they’re concerned about something real: adverse effects. They’ve heard about blood clots in women, or about myocarditis in young men, and the prospect of developing one of these frightening conditions has kept them away from the vaccination clinic."

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#24

Post by criticaltinker »

hammock wrote: post #16

>It is this weighing of risks and benefits, in all their many facets, that informs the chorus of health-care professionals imploring their families, neighbors, co-workers, and friends, along with everyone else, to please get vaccinated against covid-19. They urge vaccination because they see its ratio of risks to benefits as incredibly, unbelievably good. For someone who has already had Covid and recovered, there is…

Yes the lack of significant benefit from vaccinating individuals who have already acquired immunity has direct implications for public health policy. It’s not an efficient use of limited vaccine doses, especially when many vulnerable or immunologically naive people around the world have not received even one dose. These factors need to be considered because they could help reduce the total mortality from this pandemic [1].

[1] Model-informed COVID-19 vaccine prioritization strategies by age and serostatus https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/371/6532/916.full...

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#25

Post by CozyBearNotSoy »

void_mint wrote: post #4

Those that believe the vaccines are dangerous aren't swayed by rational thinking.

Those who believe the vaccines are safe aren't necessarily swayed by rational thinking. Do you know that the vaccines won't eventually be linked to autoimmune or cerebrovascular disease? No, just like the rest of us you have no clue.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#26

Post by olliej »

sharken wrote: post #18
mjevans wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 3 months after 0+ are eligible for a vaccine that works I will stop giving a crap about others. I will still wear a mask for myself just as an added layer of protection, but I'll cease caring about saving those who do not want to be saved.

So how do you feel about the alcoholics and obese, do you also not care about them ?

Alcoholics and the obese don’t transmit death or cause others to die by exhausting hospital resources*

* Well DUIs kill people, but we’ve recognized that in that case someone’s “freedom” is legal when it kills other people

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#27

Post by void_mint »

User23 wrote: post #17
void_mint wrote: post #4

Those that believe the vaccines are dangerous aren't swayed by rational thinking.

Being dishonest isn't a hallmark of rational thinking either. The Covid-19 vaccines are observably dangerous to some persons[1], however rare that danger may be. The rational thing to do is to weigh the risk versus the benefit. If you really want hesitant persons to get vaccinated, you're going to get a lot farther by being honest about the risks of the vaccines, the risks of Covid-19, and showing why, for their circ…

> The Covid-19 vaccines are observably dangerous

Generally when people refer to something as "dangerous", they don't mean "To a very very small subset of people, and in very very specific and rare circumstances".

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#28

Post by vldmit »

You can't persuade skeptics by not addressing (simply omitting) some most important concerns, namely:

- Role of age, fitness and comorbidities in risk/benefit analysis - Lack of trust in institutions (suppression of alternative views; capture/corruption)

Another question is who New Yorker can reach, I won't be surprised that ~95% of their audience are already vaccinated. And remaining 5% holdouts are well-informed and would need way better arguments.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#29

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

sharken wrote: post #18
mjevans wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 3 months after 0+ are eligible for a vaccine that works I will stop giving a crap about others. I will still wear a mask for myself just as an added layer of protection, but I'll cease caring about saving those who do not want to be saved.

So how do you feel about the alcoholics and obese, do you also not care about them ?

What about them? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
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