Ironically, Ford, which is a big investor in Rivian, has a market cap of only $52B.
They flipped the revenue switch too early.
Rivian Files for IPO, Seeking About $80B Valuation
21–30 of 42 posts
Re: Rivian Files for IPO, Seeking About $80B Valuation
#22Ironically, Ford, which is a big investor in Rivian, has a market cap of only $52B.
Ford has a debt of $160B, so they have a valuation of $210B.
That’s not how things work. Their market cap is price per stock * number of stocks (the theoretical price to buy Ford completely).
You can also calculated their book value, which is their assets minus their liabilities, but that is smaller than their market cap (as it should be).
Re: Rivian Files for IPO, Seeking About $80B Valuation
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
I loved this tweet by Ross Gerber "So that makes tesla worth $8 tril by these metrics." https://twitter.com/GerberKawasaki/status/143129811631815884... Some valuations are truly difficult to grasp.
Nearly all valuations are difficult to grasp at this point. We're _way_ overdue for a _massive_ correction. Surprised Pikachu faces incoming.
Are we? I mean, where else are excess savings going to go? It's clear that every time stocks start to seriously pull back that the Fed just pumps out more money. At some point it seems like yes, stocks are overvalued, but I'd rather put money into something with productive capacity, as opposed to something like cash which more and more seems like it will just lose value faster.
Re: Rivian Files for IPO, Seeking About $80B Valuation
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nearly all valuations are difficult to grasp at this point. We're _way_ overdue for a _massive_ correction. Surprised Pikachu faces incoming.
Powell won't reduce the Fed's balance sheet until every last person in PE is a billionaire (on paper). https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_recenttren...
I fear it's going to be like 90's Russian hyperinflation (ending with default). Ain't gonna be pretty if that happens, for anyone in the US or abroad. There's also nothing the Fed can do about it once it starts in earnest.
Re: Rivian Files for IPO, Seeking About $80B Valuation
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nearly all valuations are difficult to grasp at this point. We're _way_ overdue for a _massive_ correction. Surprised Pikachu faces incoming.
Are we? I mean, where else are excess savings going to go? It's clear that every time stocks start to seriously pull back that the Fed just pumps out more money. At some point it seems like yes, stocks are overvalued, but I'd rather put money into something with productive capacity, as opposed to something like cash which more and more seems like it will just lose value faster.
"Excess savings" are going to panic and go to "the mattress" at some point, when it becomes clear "excess savings" are invested into a de-facto Ponzi scheme which has no bearing on the real world at all. See e.g. 2008 or 2001 before that.
Re: Rivian Files for IPO, Seeking About $80B Valuation
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are we? I mean, where else are excess savings going to go? It's clear that every time stocks start to seriously pull back that the Fed just pumps out more money. At some point it seems like yes, stocks are overvalued, but I'd rather put money into something with productive capacity, as opposed to something like cash which more and more seems like it will just lose value faster.
"Excess savings" are going to panic and go to "the mattress" at some point, when it becomes clear "excess savings" are invested into a de-facto Ponzi scheme which has no bearing on the real world at all. See e.g. 2008 or 2001 before that.
I mean, that's my exact point. If there is anything 2001 or 2008 taught the world, it's that the Fed will run the printing press full bore if there is a big downturn, so putting cash in your mattress is the absolute worst place for it to be.
Re: Rivian Files for IPO, Seeking About $80B Valuation
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Excess savings" are going to panic and go to "the mattress" at some point, when it becomes clear "excess savings" are invested into a de-facto Ponzi scheme which has no bearing on the real world at all. See e.g. 2008 or 2001 before that.
I mean, that's my exact point. If there is anything 2001 or 2008 taught the world, it's that the Fed will run the printing press full bore if there is a big downturn, so putting cash in your mattress is the absolute worst place for it to be.
It already did run it full bore for the past year and a half - US public is just not paying attention. At some point running it full bore will turn the US into Zimbabwe, currency-value wise. That will not reflect positively on the economy as a whole.
Re: Rivian Files for IPO, Seeking About $80B Valuation
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ford has a debt of $160B, so they have a valuation of $210B.
That’s not how things work. Their market cap is price per stock * number of stocks (the theoretical price to buy Ford completely). You can also calculated their book value, which is their assets minus their liabilities, but that is smaller than their market cap (as it should be).
That's exactly how it works. If you buy a house for $500k and have a $300k mortgage do you say the house is only worth $200k?
Re: Rivian Files for IPO, Seeking About $80B Valuation
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ford has a debt of $160B, so they have a valuation of $210B.
That’s not how things work. Their market cap is price per stock * number of stocks (the theoretical price to buy Ford completely). You can also calculated their book value, which is their assets minus their liabilities, but that is smaller than their market cap (as it should be).
Parent is referring to total enterprise value, which is the right way to compare the value of businesses with different amounts of leverage.
Imagine if you bought a restaurant for $100 cash, and I bought an identical restaurant with $50 cash and $50 of debt against the business. Both restaurants are worth $100.
Re: Rivian Files for IPO, Seeking About $80B Valuation
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s not how things work. Their market cap is price per stock * number of stocks (the theoretical price to buy Ford completely). You can also calculated their book value, which is their assets minus their liabilities, but that is smaller than their market cap (as it should be).
That's exactly how it works. If you buy a house for $500k and have a $300k mortgage do you say the house is only worth $200k?
Not OP but.. There’s a difference between debts and assets though. Is the $160B debt equivalent to $160B in assets or did they screw up and overspend? If I bought a $500k for $1M then the next buyer can’t get it appraised for such