Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#21

Post by l33tman » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #11

hourislate wrote: post #5

Need to come up with a Nasal Spray version. The mucosal immune system represents the body’s first line of defense and makes up most of the immune system and should be more effective than an intramuscular shot. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-08-sniffing-alternative-... Researchers even observed the nasal vaccine to be more effective than if administered into the muscles, Damron said. He explained that a high amou…

Yes. No intramuscular vaccination for a respiratory virus is going to be effective at preventing infection of the surface, mucosal, tissues in the upper respiratory tract. The IgG antibodies in the body serum do seep into the lower lungs though and prevent serious diseases there and in the body proper. To provide sterilizing immunity to the upper respiratory mucosa we'll need an intranasal booster after the intramusc…

But won't the mucosa learn to produce the IgA antibodies when you get exposed the next time though? The virus is going to be endemic forever, all who got and will get the vaccine are going to get exposed again and again.

In other words, for the already vaccinated (or post-infected) won't repeated exposure also act as a booster?

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#22

Post by breadzeppelin__ » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

j_walter wrote: post #18

HWR_14 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 39% is against getting an infection, and I believe that includes the ability to transmit the infection on. It definitely is crucial that Re (R0 modified by measures like vaccines and masks) be kept below 1 if at all possible. The preventing severe illness is still holding pretty firm, but not as strong as against other variants. Still a very good chance. And preventing hospitalizations is even stronger.

I haven't seen any good information on transmission. My gut feeling is that less symptoms == less transmissibility, but I have no data to back that up. One study has put the delta R0 around the same as Measles...which is 3x original COVID, but still less than Chicken Pox.

> less symptoms == less transmissibility

doesn't really hold up when asymptomatic spread (no symptoms at all) has been one of the main concerns for the entire pandemic

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#23

Post by dmwallin » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

j_walter wrote: post #14

jefft255 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that it's pretty clear that vaccine do not do a good job at preventing infection (i.e. testing positive and/or having cold-like symptoms), Delta or not. I don't think they were ever advertised as such.

Politicians certainly didn't deliver a great message about it though...when they are the ones that are giving out 99% of the information about the vaccine (since I don't think the drug companies can advertise a non-approved drug). Many vaccines are meant to prevent infection, but this type is meant to mostly reduce the chance of severe infection by training your body to see the virus sooner and know how to attack it…

>>> training your body to see the virus sooner and know how to attack it with less "training"

This is literally how every vaccine ever made works.

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#24

Post by kindatrue » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

71a54xd wrote: post #8

j_walter wrote: post #4

39% effective against infection, but the big sticking point is that it "Largely prevents severe illness"...ie keeping people out of the hospital. That is the crucial need right now with the delta spread.

This is the media "grift" I absolutely can't believe. The vaccine IS preventing people from dying and it's largely known that the vaccine doesn't prevent infection or spread. That said, GET THE VACCINE, I do not intend for this to sound like I'm condoning any kind of anti-vax narrative! Political fluff is expected, but keeping millions of people afraid and irate about information that deeply pertains to both their ph…

>for what gain

Those clicks!

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#25

Post by rmdashrfstar » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #12

jefft255 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that it's pretty clear that vaccine do not do a good job at preventing infection (i.e. testing positive and/or having cold-like symptoms), Delta or not. I don't think they were ever advertised as such.

The mRNA vaccines were very good at preventing any infection, between 80% and 95% effective depending on variant and study. J&J was between 65 and 80% depending on the variant and study. All of them have been excellent at preventing hospitalization and death. And they definitely were advertised as helping to prevent the spread. That's the whole "herd immunity" thing. After all, one goal is to prevent the epidemic fro…

Vaccines does not _prevent_ infection.

Vaccines prevent _diseases_ that can be dangerous, or even deadly. Vaccines greatly reduce the _risk_ of infection by working with the body’s natural defenses to safely develop immunity to disease.

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#26

Post by dolni » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

nitwit005 wrote: post #20

dolni wrote: post #15

Studies continue to show vaccines are less effective than we were all lead to believe. It seems like every new study that comes out lowers the bar even further. Pretty soon we'll be hearing "the vaccine doesn't help at all, but at least it didn't give you cancer" (mild sarcasm there, but you get the point). Each of the big pharma companies were poised to make a boatload of money by being first to produce a vaccine. I…

You're acting like this is a surprise result, but everyone expected this. The vaccine was designed to make you resistant to a different virus. We give out new flu shots every year for a reason.

It wasn't a surprise result, you say? Then how could it be that lockdowns were lifted in the US with barely 50% of the population vaccinated AND without approval for children?

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#27

Post by j_walter » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:15 PM UTC

breadzeppelin__ wrote: post #22

j_walter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen any good information on transmission. My gut feeling is that less symptoms == less transmissibility, but I have no data to back that up. One study has put the delta R0 around the same as Measles...which is 3x original COVID, but still less than Chicken Pox.

> less symptoms == less transmissibility doesn't really hold up when asymptomatic spread (no symptoms at all) has been one of the main concerns for the entire pandemic

Sure, but everything also said its spread through the air...no coughing == less droplets. The spread concern would be if people aren't taking the same precautions because they aren't showing symptoms, but if still wearing masks or social distancing then the transmission should be less.

That being said most people aren't taking precautions any more because of this...I've seen people directly exposed for up to 2 days to someone with COVID w/ symptoms who then gets an immediate negative test and goes on with their life and not wearing masks in public/work. No amount of yelling or shaming does any good when people are oblivious to their own self destructive behavior.

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#28

Post by j_walter » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:16 PM UTC

dmwallin wrote: post #23

j_walter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicians certainly didn't deliver a great message about it though...when they are the ones that are giving out 99% of the information about the vaccine (since I don't think the drug companies can advertise a non-approved drug). Many vaccines are meant to prevent infection, but this type is meant to mostly reduce the chance of severe infection by training your body to see the virus sooner and know how to attack it…

>>> training your body to see the virus sooner and know how to attack it with less "training" This is literally how every vaccine ever made works.

Yes, but some are better at never getting infected in the first place, like chicken pox, hepatitis or measles.

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#29

Post by CarelessExpert » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

This was reported a month ago and has been discussed ad nauseum, including issues with the Israeli data and methodology. Why bring it up again now?

Edit: BTW, regarding the data and methodology, here's a great write-up about why the Israeli top-line numbers can be misleading:

https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-...

Re: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, Israel Study Suggests

#30

Post by yodon » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:22 PM UTC

dolni wrote: post #26

nitwit005 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're acting like this is a surprise result, but everyone expected this. The vaccine was designed to make you resistant to a different virus. We give out new flu shots every year for a reason.

It wasn't a surprise result, you say? Then how could it be that lockdowns were lifted in the US with barely 50% of the population vaccinated AND without approval for children?

They were lifted because voters were angry and made that anger known to politicians, who responded in a political manner rather than a medical manner.