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LudoTune, a 3D music sequencer in the browser

ludotune.com

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Re: LudoTune, a 3D music sequencer in the browser

#21

Post by dyltur »

dkersten wrote: post #19
zabatuvajdka wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nicely done! It’s a neat game. I wouldn’t call it a great tool because it’s impossible for me to interpret the music from the blocks themselves without playing it. That being said I’m sure that wasn’t the original intent of the app! 2D info is much easier for me to decipher.

Yeah, its cool, its fun, but its not useful for actual real world composition, since its rather convoluted to work with and this final piece is incomprehensible, especially compared to a paino roll or similar. But, of course, like you, I assume that's not the goal so it doesn't matter. It is cool and it is fun and that's all that's important. And I'm very impressed by this example! garrettjoecox did a great job.

I'm biased of course, but I think there are actually music-makers who enjoy novel and non-linear sequencers like this, particularly for idea generation / experimentation. Not saying it would have mainstream appeal, but there are considerations other than interpretability for some people. E.g. Conditional logic and probability cubes let you do things that can't be done on a normal piano roll. At least that's why I added MIDI output - for the people who want to connect it to their DAW or other MIDI device.

Re: LudoTune, a 3D music sequencer in the browser

#22

Post by Cycl0ps »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #11
Cycl0ps wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you proposing making it easier causes some detriment?

No. I'm asking why we want it to be easier. You can make getting from A to B easier (and faster), by replacing walking with cycling. You make it even easier with a bus, and easier still with a car. In some circumstances, this is valuable and should be welcomed. But it's a mistake to think that moving from A to B in a car is actually the same experience as doing so on foot. I'm suggesting that this might be true of ma…

I can agree that this is a differet experience than other ways of composing, but I think that's a good thing. Walking from A-B let's you experience the travel in detail, driving let's you visit more places in the same time. Both have their benefits, but you can't say one is better than the other without a specific use case in mind. In a more literal view, LudoTune offers a set of conviences and constraints that aren't had with other systems. Combined, those changes will encourage exploration and the growth of new ideas.

While it was before my time, I'm sure the development of synthesizers and sampling audio tracks were considered by some to be shortening the travel-time between A and B, but those became influential in modern music. Maybe this isn't the next big thing in music, but it could be, and I'm curious to see how far it can be taken.

Re: LudoTune, a 3D music sequencer in the browser

#23

Post by marapuru »

dyltur wrote: post #13

Hey everyone, I'm the developer. Thanks for the nice comments! Happy to answer any questions.

I love the visual elements that drag the music out of the audiospectrum. As a visual person this speaks to me so much more than the traditional 2D way of representing music. It's really cool to see songs visually laid out in a 3D space.

What was your original intent with this project? I feel this would work very well for educational aspects, slightly comparable to sonic-pi, especially when it comes to how easy it is to make something nice.

Re: LudoTune, a 3D music sequencer in the browser

#25

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

vosper wrote: post #15
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I'm asking why we want it to be easier. You can make getting from A to B easier (and faster), by replacing walking with cycling. You make it even easier with a bus, and easier still with a car. In some circumstances, this is valuable and should be welcomed. But it's a mistake to think that moving from A to B in a car is actually the same experience as doing so on foot. I'm suggesting that this might be true of ma…

This isn’t going to replace other ways of making music, in the same way that people still walk and cycle even though cars exist

I wasn't suggesting that. My remark/question was about the general idea that we should try to make making music easier.

Re: LudoTune, a 3D music sequencer in the browser

#26

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

filoleg wrote: post #14
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I'm asking why we want it to be easier. You can make getting from A to B easier (and faster), by replacing walking with cycling. You make it even easier with a bus, and easier still with a car. In some circumstances, this is valuable and should be welcomed. But it's a mistake to think that moving from A to B in a car is actually the same experience as doing so on foot. I'm suggesting that this might be true of ma…

>I'm suggesting that this might be true of making music also. No, it isn't, because unlike with getting from point A to point B, the end result isn't always the same with music making. Music, in that aspect, is more like writing code or visual arts. Printing and photography becoming widely available didn't make visual arts worse, they did the opposite, because instead of focusing on just technical proficiency, the ar…

One of my go-to examples in this domain is to look back at the career of the composer Steve Reich. Living in NYC, it wasn't so difficult for him to find performers to realize the (then radical) musical ideas he was experimenting with in the late 1960s and early 1970s. If Reich had been living in Smalltownsville, SomeState it could have been much, much more challenging (arguably close to impossible). So in this sense, the accessibility of contemporary digital audio workstation technology [0] makes it more feasible for anyone with musical ideas to explore them, and we should celebrate this.

However, the path that Reich did actually follow underscores the senses in which making music is so often a social activity, and there is no doubt based on interviews with Reich that having/choosing to work with other human musicians changed the evolution of his music. Not everyone likes his music, and of those who do, some might have preferred the direction it might have gone had Reich been an Ableton Live user. Nevertheless, I continue to believe that music as a social activity is critical to almost all good-to-great music, and that contemporary technology frequently undermines that.

[0] perhaps paradoxically, I am the author of just such a piece of technology.

Re: LudoTune, a 3D music sequencer in the browser

#27

Post by dyltur »

marapuru wrote: post #23
dyltur wrote: post #13

Hey everyone, I'm the developer. Thanks for the nice comments! Happy to answer any questions.

I love the visual elements that drag the music out of the audiospectrum. As a visual person this speaks to me so much more than the traditional 2D way of representing music. It's really cool to see songs visually laid out in a 3D space. What was your original intent with this project? I feel this would work very well for educational aspects, slightly comparable to sonic-pi, especially when it comes to how easy it is…

Thanks that's great to hear! Initially I thought it would be a game/toy just because I personally thought it would be fun to build and share music like this. The bulk of early users seem to enjoy it just for this as well, although I have had some requests to add more utility for music-makers (some want a LudoTune VST and others potentially a desktop or iPad app). The educational angle has also been brought up a few times and I think that'd be great, so I'll probably be exploring that further too.

Re: LudoTune, a 3D music sequencer in the browser

#29

Post by dyltur »

bruce343434 wrote: post #24

The program doesn't really run at a constant rate and keeps stuttering so the rythms are all over the place. Too bad because otherwise it seems like a cool concept.

Ah I'm sorry you're having that problem. The audio is scheduled accurately with the web audio api (using Tone.js), but on some devices performance could still be an issue. The best experience is definitely with Chrome or Firefox on desktop/laptop (Safari or mobile devices may not work as well). If you think your device should be capable of running it smoothly (or the frame rate is good, but the audio isn't) it could help me out to know which OS and Browser you're using.

Re: LudoTune, a 3D music sequencer in the browser

#30

Post by dyltur »

parsecs wrote: post #28

Does anybody know of anything that can make music like this without being 3D? Like, anything more "practical" in a sense? I think some of the tunes here are really nice.

A few people have told me it reminds them of Orca, although I haven't tried it out yet myself: https://hundredrabbits.itch.io/orca
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