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I've been programming since I was 10, but I don't feel like a 'hacker'

lizdenys.com

21–30 of 53 posts

Re: I've been programming since I was 10, but I don't feel like a 'hacker'

#21
post #13

The missing component is curiosity.

Not sure why you're being downvoted.

At once the term "hacker" may have accompanied all programmers to some extent, but I view it as someone who tears code apart.

Reverse engineering, deconstructing, picking apart. Being curious about a system and picking at it so much you find flaws in it.

I'd also consider engineers that hack things together. Being creative with what you have, also helps when stringing vulnerabilities together.

Creativity and curiosity are good traits of a hacker and being a hacker is a good trait of a programmer.

Re: I've been programming since I was 10, but I don't feel like a 'hacker'

#22
hacker = diy = punk = black flag?

The words mean so many things. It usually starts with being curious and learning how things work and then going one step further and using that technology in ways no one expected.

A programmer was never a hacker. Many hackers program but most programmers do not hack.

Just because you have been working in computers since 8 it doesn't make you a hacker. Taking something and using it in unexpected ways would need to be part of it. None of this matters without the right philosophy of curiousity and discovery.

Re: I've been programming since I was 10, but I don't feel like a 'hacker'

#23
Hacking is very often associated with computer systems, both in the sense of code and circuits, networks that connect them.

But, actually hacking is a distinct thing apart from all that.

My earliest hack was on locked doors as a little kid. Standing alone in a hall, I grabbed the knob and began to explore playfully.

I remember the thought:

What does locked actually mean?

The knob still moves. A little.

Turns out that door knob could move. So I moved it a little. Back and forth. After a time, back permitted more movement than forth did.

Why?

Also turns out moving forth fast, then back, then forth again yields more movement overall, but only briefly. And only when continued.

...

And then it happened. More and more varied movements, patterns, and the door just opened.

No key.

I remember that so vividly, because it changed how I think, or maybe just expanded scope. Was a big deal. I never expected to actually open the door.

There are expected inputs, actions, moves, information. And there is also the unexpected.

There is what a thing was designed for, and that intent may actually overlap with other use cases, sort of like off label drug use does.

More importantly, there is how we may believe a thing works, what we tell people about how it works and whether there are lies, omissions, and the like.

And there is what it actually does, given unexpected inputs, or even the approved ones.

That all gets at what hacking really is. People seek understanding of tech around them. And they do that directly, themselves. Playfully, often enough.

Their reasons vary good and bad, of course.

Farmers are traditionally great hackers, and their reasons are some of the best! People need food and the world is complex, high cost, high risks, and when that goes bad people do not eat. A good farmer will do what it takes to bring a crop in. And should. I grew up near one. That is very likely where some of my own inclinations came from.

Others can cite examples. Good and bad.

Really, what I wanted to get at was the mindset.

Being curious about systems, tech, basically the machinery we live in, around, or use, own.

Knowing the difference between generally accepted human limits, our own limits, and what the machinery of nature will permit. Turns out the more we hack on that, the more we understand and the more our world permits us to do. Same goes for ourselves.

Neat, isn't it?

Some call this sort of thing science.

Others may call it play. Your cat surely does, as did you and I and maybe we still do when we approach tech with that playful gleam in our eye... just what can I make this do, or can I do with this, if...

As for the doors?

Well, I got good and in the course of a week could enter many locked rooms in less than a minute by hand manipulation of the door knob.

Check this 70's foreshadowing on the world today out!

So I actually disclosed responsibly. Grade schooler. Talked with an uncle who walked me through scenarios. It made sense to do.

When I did know what happened?

They, of course made it all about me. Nobody else was a problem.

I remember saying that sort of thing is true, until it isn't, and yeah. Did not go well.

Eventually, it came down to me saying they just need to fix the locks. A janitor agreed and had found out most were installed wrong. In the wrong position they were subject to hand manipulation due to the mechanism being impacted by gravity. Even worse! That janitor maintained things well always making sure to lube the locks when any were sticky. Why not? Who does not like it when stuff works well, consistently?

The fix was to flip them over.

Any of that seem like familiar ground?

There are some negative connotations around the words, hack and hacker. Me? I tend to ignore them and will identify an activity as a hack and having done it, me, others as hackers.

Turns out that uncle was a bit of a hacker too. For a time, he would bring me locks and I would pick them, or get his help and it was great fun! I remember one days conversation too:

The locks are there to keep most people honest. It is a cost or barrier to remind us, that sort of thing.

Well, all of that remains true whether one can pick locks or not, but with one big difference: saving a life, or escaping real trouble of some kind may actually happen when it might otherwise not.

The point here being curious about how tech works is not a crime. It actually has high value! Snuffing that out of people to make another buck, or cover up for other failings, corruption, exploitation, even ignorance and error makes no sense!

Sure, we may blunt the peak levels of bad in the world, but we rub out the peak good even more, and it is the good which gets us through hard times, advances tech, and all manner of works that increase the potential for the world to be better, brighter, safer, and above all, a whole lot more fun!

Re: I've been programming since I was 10, but I don't feel like a 'hacker'

#24
post #10

I never even really hear the term "hacker" anymore. I'm not sure what's driven it out of the industry. I've been programming since I was nine and I was never called a "hacker", even to date. I was called a "nerd", a term which used to be a pejorative for young boys who spent a lot of time on a computer and had a-typical interests and attire. I was made fun of for reading programming books when I finished my other wor…

Being called a nerd is not desirable aa such, even now. The salaries though? Of course.

I disagree. I'm happy to be called a nerd. Sometimes I use the word ironically as a pejorative, but that's usually to make fun of the ghost of an old trend.

Re: I've been programming since I was 10, but I don't feel like a 'hacker'

#26
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think two things drove it out: 1. the long-standing confusion between "someone who tinkers with programs" and "someone who maliciously breaks into systems" the tinkering contingent fought diligently against letting the black hat contingent coopt the term, but then 2. the tech-bro/marketer crowd caught hold of it, and it became associated with other cringy terms like "ninja" and "rockstar". (tangentially, "wizard" a…

For those reasons, I personally would not object if YC decided to change the name of Hacker News to something else. The current name seems misleading, at least to me.

That would be a shame really.

Re: I've been programming since I was 10, but I don't feel like a 'hacker'

#27
post #26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those reasons, I personally would not object if YC decided to change the name of Hacker News to something else. The current name seems misleading, at least to me.

That would be a shame really.

Yes, the whole idea sounds like a progressive attack by the word police looking for another target to cancel. A not so long time ago there were these thick stacks of paper bound in twine, glue and leather called dictionaries that contained words and their understood meanings and it made it far more difficult to change a words meaning, it seems as with everything in this modern world the time for a meaning to be changed has accelerated to the point that ridiculous definitions can be twisted and imposed upon any word now.

Personally I prefer the darker meaning of hacker than the 2000s "G rated" version of hacker but that's probably because of my age.

So

To all the hackers, crackers and phreaks still out there...all your bases are belong to us, we are legion, we do not forget, expect us.

Re: I've been programming since I was 10, but I don't feel like a 'hacker'

#28
post #14
post #10

I never even really hear the term "hacker" anymore. I'm not sure what's driven it out of the industry. I've been programming since I was nine and I was never called a "hacker", even to date. I was called a "nerd", a term which used to be a pejorative for young boys who spent a lot of time on a computer and had a-typical interests and attire. I was made fun of for reading programming books when I finished my other wor…

i think two things drove it out: 1. the long-standing confusion between "someone who tinkers with programs" and "someone who maliciously breaks into systems" the tinkering contingent fought diligently against letting the black hat contingent coopt the term, but then 2. the tech-bro/marketer crowd caught hold of it, and it became associated with other cringy terms like "ninja" and "rockstar". (tangentially, "wizard" a…

I most often hear "hacks" and "hacky code" to refer to unmaintainable shortcuts and/or "clever" tricks, these days. So in that sense a "hacker" would not be something I would want to be called or call a coworker considering the modern usage.

Re: I've been programming since I was 10, but I don't feel like a 'hacker'

#30
post #10

I never even really hear the term "hacker" anymore. I'm not sure what's driven it out of the industry. I've been programming since I was nine and I was never called a "hacker", even to date. I was called a "nerd", a term which used to be a pejorative for young boys who spent a lot of time on a computer and had a-typical interests and attire. I was made fun of for reading programming books when I finished my other wor…

I think the word has been used in so many different ways... that maybe it's better to just create your own definition.

Mine would be this (for both nerd and hacker): Someone with an almost insatiable curiosity, who will tinker around with hard- and software even in their free time, next to work and studying for example. Someone who has side projects... Someone who is so interested in the inner workings of the things and technology around them that even encountering normal everyday technological things will result in ideas popping up in their head on what out of the ordinary but interesting things could be done with those things.

Personally, I identify with it because of that endless curiosity. I think that in a way it may seem a bit weird because... the curiosity is so burning that we just can't stop tinkering and hacking around until we get what we want to do.

Also I believe that a black hat hacker is the same... I'm not talking about the ordinary small criminal but about the guy who hacks something that is thought of being safe and unhackable. Because that is the guy who just couldn't stop and couldn't accept that, his curiosity was so overwhelming that he even did something ethically questionable.

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