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Intel Brings Chiplets to Data Center CPUs

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Re: Intel Brings Chiplets to Data Center CPUs

#21

Post by DSingularity »

mhh__ wrote: post #7
DSingularity wrote: post #4

Intel is in the cusp of getting taking out. Architectures and process technologies are both multiple generations behind. AMD has 10x its server share. If the trend sustains for one more generation the majority of the market will go to AMD.

I'll have a glass of whatever you're having. Intel's first proper competitor to Zen is coming out soon, and from what I've seen so far it looks like a monster. Couple this with them launching GPU's into the most demand-heavy market we might ever see, they don't have to do much to have a good few years. Also, every measure I've ever seen has AMD still at least a doubling away from parity with Intel, so I find your fig…

Really? Show me what you’ve seen. EPYC continues to win and Xeon continues to lose. Same for TSMC on the manufacturing side.

Re: Intel Brings Chiplets to Data Center CPUs

#22

Post by DSingularity »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #19
totalZero wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel is nowhere close to the doldrums of yesteryear's AMD. It continues to command the lion's share of the x86 market, and hasn't needed to sell off assets in order to remain afloat. In fact, Intel's business has never been better. The AMD-favoring narrative that the firms have flip-flopped is not backed up by market share research, nor corroborated by quarterly filings.

That's what I was getting at. On technical execution they actually are doing pretty bad particularly in manufacturing but also in CPU design. But even technically it has been a few years in comparison to current leaders that previously lagged by similar amounts for many years. Of course financially they are doing far better. It's just amazing to me that people who really follow the AMD / Intel battle quite closely ca…

I said they are on the cusp. Please tell me, what happens if we end up with 10nm+++? You really think we would end up with anything other than with >50% of datacenter purchases going to amd?

Re: Intel Brings Chiplets to Data Center CPUs

#23

Post by oddity »

tedunangst wrote: post #18
mappu wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's especially ironic because Intel had also previously "glued together" chiplets for the C2Qs and their equivalent Xeons (e.g. X3200 series). > The 2 × 2 "quad-core" (dual-die dual-core[17]) comprised two separate dual-core die next to each other in one CPU package.

And at the time of the Phenom X4 launch, AMD was mocking Intel for not putting all cores on one die. Seems the technically superior solution wobbles depending on who's doing it.

Chip development cycles are long enough that sometimes the only response companies have is to downplay their competitor's innovations until they have their own version. The hilarious part is that sometimes it works.

Re: Intel Brings Chiplets to Data Center CPUs

#24

Post by DSingularity »

Hikikomori wrote: post #5
DSingularity wrote: post #4

Intel is in the cusp of getting taking out. Architectures and process technologies are both multiple generations behind. AMD has 10x its server share. If the trend sustains for one more generation the majority of the market will go to AMD.

10x? Where did you find those numbers.

I actually meant 10x growth in its share of server CPU sells over past 5 years. They went from 1% of the market to roughly 10%.

Re: Intel Brings Chiplets to Data Center CPUs

#25

Post by nixgeek »

DSingularity wrote: post #4

Intel is in the cusp of getting taking out. Architectures and process technologies are both multiple generations behind. AMD has 10x its server share. If the trend sustains for one more generation the majority of the market will go to AMD.

Tell me more about 10x its server share? Do you have an industry citation showing AMD shipping 10x the sockets?

Re: Intel Brings Chiplets to Data Center CPUs

#26

Post by wtallis »

lostmsu wrote: post #17
h2odragon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_Pro

> Later, it was reduced to a more narrow role as a server and high-end desktop processor and was used in supercomputers like ASCI Red, the first computer to reach the trillion floating point operations per second (teraFLOPS) performance mark. Amazing. RTX 3090 has peak fp32 performance of 35 TFLOPS.

I believe that almost all floating point instructions on the Pentium Pro had the same performance whether you were using the x87 FPU in 32-bit, 64-bit or 80-bit mode, so it's probably more fair to compare ASCI Red against the fp64 performance of today's GPUs. NVIDIA usually doesn't let the consumer GeForce parts get anywhere near 1 TFLOPS for double-precision. You have to look at some of their Titan or datacenter GPUs to get that kind of double-precision performance.

Re: Intel Brings Chiplets to Data Center CPUs

#27

Post by toast0 »

DSingularity wrote: post #22
throwawaylinux wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I was getting at. On technical execution they actually are doing pretty bad particularly in manufacturing but also in CPU design. But even technically it has been a few years in comparison to current leaders that previously lagged by similar amounts for many years. Of course financially they are doing far better. It's just amazing to me that people who really follow the AMD / Intel battle quite closely ca…

I said they are on the cusp. Please tell me, what happens if we end up with 10nm+++? You really think we would end up with anything other than with >50% of datacenter purchases going to amd?

Currently, AMD is fab capacity limited and couldn't get enough cpus made to be 50% of datacenter purchases.

Add to that some reality about purchaser reluctance to switch, in part because of at least perceived quality of platform support, and Intel still has a lot of breathing room.

We're starting to see some positive signs from Intel fabs, so they could likely recover, as they have before. For AMD to become dominant, they will need to continue to do excellent work for a few more years while Intel continues to wallow as they have since maybe Skylake.

Re: Intel Brings Chiplets to Data Center CPUs

#28

Post by jagger27 »

I find it interesting that the dies aren’t completely identical like Zen chiplets are. If I am reading the diagram correctly, it looks like the tiles diagonal from each other are the same. Kind of neat that they’ll have left-hand and right-hand wafers.

Re: Intel Brings Chiplets to Data Center CPUs

#29

Post by Dylan16807 »

icegreentea2 wrote: post #10
OrvalWintermute wrote: post #2

I thought AMD had already brought chiplets to data center CPUs a long time ago [1], [2] and that is why they are leading currently, now that they have multiple generations of chiplet data center CPUs out? [3] [1] https://www.wired.com/story/keep-pace-moores-law-chipmakers-... [2] https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-epyc-processor-models-... [3] https://www.wired.com/story/keep-pace-moores-law-chipmakers-...

Yes. The article (second paragraph) clearly states that this is a first for Intel, not for Data Centers. Given that this is a trade-ish publication, I think writers/editors will more or less assume their audience understands the smackdown that AMD has been laying on Intel and AMD's chiplet strategy.

Though it's not even really a first for Intel. They made the Xeon 9200 series two years ago, and while those were slapdash and hard to buy, it's hard to argue that they don't deserve this crown. Two dies in a single package, each with 28 cores and memory controllers and I/O.

Even when Intel moves to heterogeneous dies, that won't actually be a first for them, even in the modern era. Several early i3/i5/i7 models had one die with two cores and another die that handled memory and I/O.

Re: Intel Brings Chiplets to Data Center CPUs

#30

Post by Dylan16807 »

jagger27 wrote: post #28

I find it interesting that the dies aren’t completely identical like Zen chiplets are. If I am reading the diagram correctly, it looks like the tiles diagonal from each other are the same. Kind of neat that they’ll have left-hand and right-hand wafers.

I wouldn't read too much into such a simple diagram. Early on a lot of people thought Epyc had mirrored dies but they're actually all the same.
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