Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers • Hacker News Board

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#21

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

dreyfan wrote: post #7

This is no more exploitative than someone trying to make it big on Youtube, Twitch, or Spotify and gaining zero traction. If the content someone creates on these platforms doesn't capture an audience, the hosting platform doesn't generate any revenue and neither does the creator. It's completely free to produce the content (minus your time) and the platform hosts it for free, even though 99% of it never receives any…

Yeah, I'm reading this and thinking it is pretty similar to the situation on twitch. I'm the world's lamest twitch streamer in a category with paltry viewership, so it took me over 600 hours of streaming to get a payout[0] and I had to hit arbitrary milestones for affiliate in the first place. I have no idea how discovery even works on twitch, but I have to imagine it's the same as everywhere else: popular stuff gets more popular and everyone else languishes in obscurity. How else could it work, really?

[0] Twitch pays out at $100, if anyone didn't know.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#22

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #12

dreyfan wrote: post #7

This is no more exploitative than someone trying to make it big on Youtube, Twitch, or Spotify and gaining zero traction. If the content someone creates on these platforms doesn't capture an audience, the hosting platform doesn't generate any revenue and neither does the creator. It's completely free to produce the content (minus your time) and the platform hosts it for free, even though 99% of it never receives any…

For adults, I agree. But this is squarely aimed at kids and they haven't got the life experience to see these problems coming or deal with them appropriately. If it were aimed at adults, but kids wanted to try, too, like Youtube... I don't have as much problem with that. But the target audience of Roblox ads is kids and always has been. It doesn't seem at all fair to trap kids into this ecosystem, sell them the thing…

Honestly the only thing I find really disingenuous about this is the implication that it's realistic to get rich and famous on it, which is a quality shared by a lot of "creator" platforms. Also college.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#23

Post by duxup » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

jnwatson wrote: post #20

duxup wrote: post #13

My son makes some games on Roblox and plays a lot. He has a great time, he's not chasing $, he just wants to have fun. It works great for that. As soon as you try to stand out and chase money, yeah it gets HARD. Just like streaming on YouTube... or just getting noticed online for your blog. But what's the alternative here? That's a question of scale. Just not let kids even have a chance to make money?

The main complaint is they encourage kids to create games by emphasizing the revenue sharing aspect, without making clear how hard it is to derive any revenue at all from it.

Honestly I think it is a good learning experience.

I talked about it with my son.

"Yup there's lots of people making games, it's hard to make games as elaborate as everyone else."

And then you just make them for fun ...

The fact that kids try and fail at this is not a bad thing IMO.

If kids out there can't control themselves (they're kids...) I gotta wonder what if any parental involvement there is. Let's say they ban kids from creating content ... kid who can't control him/herself will just go make an 'adult' account too and do the same thing. Roblox can only do so much.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#24

Post by trs8080 » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #15

wccrawford wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For adults, I agree. But this is squarely aimed at kids and they haven't got the life experience to see these problems coming or deal with them appropriately. If it were aimed at adults, but kids wanted to try, too, like Youtube... I don't have as much problem with that. But the target audience of Roblox ads is kids and always has been. It doesn't seem at all fair to trap kids into this ecosystem, sell them the thing…

What then? Just don't let them make money on the platform?

uh, yes? if your business model relies on exploiting children, you shouldn't be allowed to operate as a business.

or maybe don't pay kids whose work attracts people to your platform in your in-game digital currency. pay them, like, actual money that they've earned.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#25

Post by duxup » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

trs8080 wrote: post #24

duxup wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What then? Just don't let them make money on the platform?

uh, yes? if your business model relies on exploiting children, you shouldn't be allowed to operate as a business. or maybe don't pay kids whose work attracts people to your platform in your in-game digital currency. pay them, like, actual money that they've earned.

I feel like we'd then have the same article:

"Adults can make money but they don't let kids who create content make any money!"

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#26

Post by djrogers » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

Upon further reflection, I think I've figured out why my kids and I don't see this as exploitative - they're not trying to get rich or famous.

I'm not trying to be mean to anyone, but if you look at all of the complaints through the filter of someone who wants to a) learn to make a video game, b) learn some programming, and c) make a cool game to share with his friends, then Roblox is a really fun, free, and easy way to do all of the above.

If your filter is a kid who a) wants to make a game that goes viral and earn a bunch of money off of it, then yeah - some of these are legit complaints.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#27

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

TinkersW wrote: post #9

forgotpwd16 wrote: post #3

Not sure what Roblox is in first place. An integrated game engine and hosting site?

A really messy and ugly game that lets people make & distribute mods for it, somehow popular with children, despite being a complete mess.

I haven't played roblox and know relatively little about it, but my guess would be that it is popular with children because it has a low barrier to entry. Sort of like what Flash did for young animators.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#28

Post by trs8080 » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #25

trs8080 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

uh, yes? if your business model relies on exploiting children, you shouldn't be allowed to operate as a business. or maybe don't pay kids whose work attracts people to your platform in your in-game digital currency. pay them, like, actual money that they've earned.

I feel like we'd then have the same article: "Adults can make money but they don't let kids who create content make any money!"

kids can still make money from their creations. just pay them with real money instead of roblox digital currency (and remove the ridiculous minimum of $1k).

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#29

Post by tenaciousDaniel » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

TinkersW wrote: post #9

forgotpwd16 wrote: post #3

Not sure what Roblox is in first place. An integrated game engine and hosting site?

A really messy and ugly game that lets people make & distribute mods for it, somehow popular with children, despite being a complete mess.

I played Dreams on the PS4 before I had heard of Roblox, and when I first heard about it I thought "oh wow it's probably like Dreams but for PC!"

I was sorely disappointed - I'm as perplexed as you are how they became so successful. It is indeed a total mess.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#30

Post by djrogers » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

jnwatson wrote: post #20

duxup wrote: post #13

My son makes some games on Roblox and plays a lot. He has a great time, he's not chasing $, he just wants to have fun. It works great for that. As soon as you try to stand out and chase money, yeah it gets HARD. Just like streaming on YouTube... or just getting noticed online for your blog. But what's the alternative here? That's a question of scale. Just not let kids even have a chance to make money?

The main complaint is they encourage kids to create games by emphasizing the revenue sharing aspect, without making clear how hard it is to derive any revenue at all from it.

> they encourage kids to create games by emphasizing the revenue sharing aspect

I disagree completely here - they encourage kids to create games by giving them an easy platform to create games and letting them play games other kids have created.

A kid who sees that other kids their age are able to actually make a video game is far more likely to want to learn to do that themselves.