How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says • Hacker News Board

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#21

Post by HWR_14 » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 3:52 AM UTC

rejectedandsad wrote: post #16

musha68k wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true for very young children though, we can only protect them by proxy (us/others wearing masks plus social distancing).

Children are not at risk like adults are. I say get back to normal and let the unvaccinated adults suffer the consequences of their own actions.

Delta is apparently pretty risky to kids. And kids are at risk from long-COVID.

Why they are doing in person school and fighting over mask mandates I'll never understand. Even if children suffered no ill effects, they'll act as disease vectors for adults and breakthrough cases.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#22

Post by anonymouse008 » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 3:52 AM UTC

InvertedRhodium wrote: post #9

mattkrause wrote: post #7

In vaccinated people who become infected . Since the vaccines cause fewer people to be infected, the unconditional viral load is lower.

Wait, I thought the general consensus is that the current vaccines reduce the severity of the infection but provide little defense against contacting and spreading it? At least, this has been used to explain why infection rates are still increasing even among vaccinated populations.

My telephone told me I get Covid immediately upon vaccination /s

* this is a joke reflecting how’s the childhood game of telephone can be easily translated to “consensus says”

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#23

Post by HWR_14 » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 3:52 AM UTC

ianai wrote: post #6

Are there any numbers for long covid amongst breakthrough Delta infections?

As far as I can tell, there are many numbers. Unfortunately, they are contradictory.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#24

Post by antman » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 3:53 AM UTC

InvertedRhodium wrote: post #9

mattkrause wrote: post #7

In vaccinated people who become infected . Since the vaccines cause fewer people to be infected, the unconditional viral load is lower.

Wait, I thought the general consensus is that the current vaccines reduce the severity of the infection but provide little defense against contacting and spreading it? At least, this has been used to explain why infection rates are still increasing even among vaccinated populations.

The consensus is that vaccination also reduces spreading significantly. If I recall correctly it goes down to 25% Also vaccinated people social distance less and social distance measures are being removed so infection rates should go up.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#25

Post by walterbell » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:00 AM UTC

Vaccines delivered to the arm deltoid muscle never promised mucosal immunity.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7733922/

> The mucosal immune system is the largest component of the entire immune system, having evolved to provide protection at the main sites of infectious threat: the mucosae. As SARS-CoV-2 initially infects the upper respiratory tract, its first interactions with the immune system must occur predominantly at the respiratory mucosal surfaces, during both inductive and effector phases of the response. However, almost all studies of the immune response in COVID-19 have focused exclusively on serum antibodies and systemic cell-mediated immunity including innate responses.

That's why vaccinated people can still get infected (upper respiratory tract) and have no symptoms (serum antibodies). They can infect others (upper respiratory tract) when they are infected but don't have symptoms or a temperature check saying they should stay at home. Hence the CDC now recommends tests for vaccinated people who are exposed to Covid.

It was stated by Fauci and others in 2020 that current Covid vaccines are non-sterilizing. There are new Covid vaccines in development which provide sterilizing immunity, delivered via nasal inhaler instead of deltoid arm muscle. The MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine is sterilizing, i.e. prevents infection and transmission.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#26

Post by oxymoran » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:02 AM UTC

mint2 wrote: post #18

This title is editorialized to be misleading. It’s specifically the nose not in general. It does not mean the viral load in the lungs is the same. And studies indicate vaccinated ppl may stay infectious a shorter timespan.

Why is nobody recommending a highly saline nasal irrigation as a prophylactic? Or even a lower saline nasal irrigation with a very diluted amount of hydrogen peroxide???

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#27

Post by oxymoran » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:04 AM UTC

musha68k wrote: post #20

rejectedandsad wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children are not at risk like adults are. I say get back to normal and let the unvaccinated adults suffer the consequences of their own actions.

Unfortunately there is increasingly more data that shows that SARS-CoV-2 is not benign in children. For example this rather early analysis from 2020 included more than 2,000 children who got infected. 10.6% of infants under 1 year of age had severe or critical symptoms. All of these infants survived but a small number of infants in the United States have died following diagnosis with COVID-19 even then before Delta (…

People under the age of 1 is not even close to equaling “kids”. Come on.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#28

Post by oxymoran » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:06 AM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #21

rejectedandsad wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children are not at risk like adults are. I say get back to normal and let the unvaccinated adults suffer the consequences of their own actions.

Delta is apparently pretty risky to kids. And kids are at risk from long-COVID. Why they are doing in person school and fighting over mask mandates I'll never understand. Even if children suffered no ill effects, they'll act as disease vectors for adults and breakthrough cases.

What is your source? This is hearsay bullshit otherwise.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#29

Post by velcii » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:09 AM UTC

oxymoran wrote: post #26

mint2 wrote: post #18

This title is editorialized to be misleading. It’s specifically the nose not in general. It does not mean the viral load in the lungs is the same. And studies indicate vaccinated ppl may stay infectious a shorter timespan.

Why is nobody recommending a highly saline nasal irrigation as a prophylactic? Or even a lower saline nasal irrigation with a very diluted amount of hydrogen peroxide???

Probably because Trump suggested something similar...

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#30

Post by blamestross » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 4:14 AM UTC

oxymoran wrote: post #26

mint2 wrote: post #18

This title is editorialized to be misleading. It’s specifically the nose not in general. It does not mean the viral load in the lungs is the same. And studies indicate vaccinated ppl may stay infectious a shorter timespan.

Why is nobody recommending a highly saline nasal irrigation as a prophylactic? Or even a lower saline nasal irrigation with a very diluted amount of hydrogen peroxide???

You need to have well sterilized water for that just not to lead to a sinus infection which will leave you more susceptible. Tapwater isn't good enough, and is going to be rather harsh out of most taps in the US. Clean water in general isn't a solved problem.

If you decide to do this with tap water, leave it out for a day or so to let the chlorine evaporate and then boil it for at least 5 minutes. Netti pots are also basically waterboarding fyi. Have fun!