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For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

economist.com

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Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#21

Post by vladvasiliu »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #10
flexie wrote: post #4

Perhaps jobs posted on HN are not representative of IT jobs in general, but the tendency is clear.

I'd say the more removed your job as a programmer is from those "posted on HN" or in the FAANGM realm and is more solid enterprisey "Line of Business" type work the GREATER leverage you have in telling an employer to go pound sand if they want to get back to a butts in seats world. We've been full remote for 18 months with only tentative plans to go to a 3/2 office/remote sitch by next year (with team options to go e…

I don't share your optimism.

From what I see in France, there's a ton of competition in "consulting". Not freelance, mind, but body shops renting out developers. The end clients have a tendency to think of those devs as completely interchangeable (that's the main reason they give when asked why they don't hire directly).

I have a hard time seeing how telling them to pound sand can have a serious effect, especially since your employer (entity signing your paycheck) is not the same as the entity for whom you actually work. So aggravating a few too many clients might start having adverse effects with your actual employer.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#22

Post by busterarm »

adrianN wrote: post #20
busterarm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plumbing. Electrical. HVAC. Roofing. The average age of trade workers is over 50. Carpentry is in extreme demand but the pay hasn't caught up yet -- eventually it will. Demand already far exceeds supply. Edit: I like how I gave a perfectly truthful answer to the question and I'm being downvoted to oblivion. A lot of contempt for tradespeople, I guess. I went to high school with people who became electricians and they…

Hm, I think those industries are subject to boom and bust cycles in construction.

In fact, no. Those are specifically the trades that always have work and don't depend on new construction. "General Construction" is very boom&bust.

There are also many specialties available in plumbing and electrical that demand top dollar. The average electrician where I'm at in the US working for themselves is making $80-150 an hour (market depending) without any specialties involved.

Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP0egqOivKc

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#24

Post by LAC-Tech »

I'd hate to go back to working in an office. I live in the countryside now and it's great.

However I realise it may not always be so easy. So:

- I'm self employed. Foreign companies aren't going to set up a branch office just to employ me. Purchasing my services however is easy.

- I've niched down to a business vertical, and I'm starting to niche down more technically as well. No more "I'm a full stack developer with a track record of delivering results across multiple industries".

- I write software for the agricultural sector. It's not an industry that tends to cluster as much in big cities. A lot of companies are based in regional areas, and it's not realistic for them to source all the talent they need locally. People are open to networking online.

It's not a raging success yet but it's a lot better than working in an office everyday in the city was for me.

YMMV if you live in a US tech hub.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#25

Post by BrissyCoder »

ram_rar wrote: post #16

Right now companies havent figured out how to handle this situation and are playing along. I'm sure, sooner or later tides will turn and either you'll be roped into coming to office or take a pay cut for working remotely. So enjoy while it last!!

I don't get your reasoning on why you expect that people will have to take a pay cut for working remotely. Would have thought it would be the opposite. Office space, hardware and energy cost a bit.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#26

Post by hiddencache »

ram_rar wrote: post #16

Right now companies havent figured out how to handle this situation and are playing along. I'm sure, sooner or later tides will turn and either you'll be roped into coming to office or take a pay cut for working remotely. So enjoy while it last!!

Google is already looking at this...

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2021/08/11/remo...

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#28

Post by oblio »

ram_rar wrote: post #16

Right now companies havent figured out how to handle this situation and are playing along. I'm sure, sooner or later tides will turn and either you'll be roped into coming to office or take a pay cut for working remotely. So enjoy while it last!!

It's started already: https://www.reuters.com/world/the-great-reboot/pay-cut-googl...

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#29

Post by alfiedotwtf »

Regardless of jobs containing "onsite" or "remote", the metric that really matters is - how many people are actually applying...

Companies can advertise "onsite" all they want, but from all the stories I've heard about how hard it is to find good developers, and how developers are leaving their work-from-home jobs as soon as they're told to come into the office, you have to draw the conclusion that it's a buyer's market and employers are either going to have to fold to devs, or have their vacant roles stay open for longer than usual.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#30

Post by peakaboo »

ram_rar wrote: post #16

Right now companies havent figured out how to handle this situation and are playing along. I'm sure, sooner or later tides will turn and either you'll be roped into coming to office or take a pay cut for working remotely. So enjoy while it last!!

That's a proper slave mentality right there. I suggest you instead think like this "what will I do to continue working remotely? Which company will I pick?".
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