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Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

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Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#21

Post by Nicksil »

carom wrote: post #14

This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. EFF lost a lot of credence to me after the Best Buy case. They made this big fuss about how Geek Squad employees were agents of the state for reporting CSAM on a customers hard drive, while doing a requested file recovery. When searched, the defend…

>This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender.

The analogy isn't great. Anti-virus/malware software provides a benefit to the owner of the device; Apple's software does not.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#22

Post by mormegil »

gfody wrote: post #16
carom wrote: post #14

This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. EFF lost a lot of credence to me after the Best Buy case. They made this big fuss about how Geek Squad employees were agents of the state for reporting CSAM on a customers hard drive, while doing a requested file recovery. When searched, the defend…

Defender has been killing KMSAuto for years, I wonder what other utils are blacklisted

Netcat, for instance.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#23

Post by threeseed »

Nicksil wrote: post #21
carom wrote: post #14

This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. EFF lost a lot of credence to me after the Best Buy case. They made this big fuss about how Geek Squad employees were agents of the state for reporting CSAM on a customers hard drive, while doing a requested file recovery. When searched, the defend…

>This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. The analogy isn't great. Anti-virus/malware software provides a benefit to the owner of the device; Apple's software does not.

If you are a parent you very much will appreciate your children not receiving or sending explicit photos.

As someone who cares for society I am thrilled that Apple is preventing the dissemination of CSAM.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#24

Post by BluSyn »

carom wrote: post #14

This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. EFF lost a lot of credence to me after the Best Buy case. They made this big fuss about how Geek Squad employees were agents of the state for reporting CSAM on a customers hard drive, while doing a requested file recovery. When searched, the defend…

Thanks for stating a well-reasoned comment on this issue. I think far more people are in this camp than are willing to admit on social media. The voices of hyperbole have drowned out the conversation rendering all nuance meaningless.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#25

Post by 2pEXgD0fZ5cF »

carom wrote: post #14

This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. EFF lost a lot of credence to me after the Best Buy case. They made this big fuss about how Geek Squad employees were agents of the state for reporting CSAM on a customers hard drive, while doing a requested file recovery. When searched, the defend…

> It scans your photos, for known CSAM images

No, it scans photos for arbitray (fancy) hashes, and Apple chooses to limit it to CSAM images. Nothing about the tech prevents it from being expanded to other kinds of images. And from what I understand, nothing prevents it from being expanded to other filetypes either, does it?

The only thing that ties this tech to CSAM images is Apples promise (and claim) to keep the scope limited.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#26

Post by carom »

Nicksil wrote: post #21
carom wrote: post #14

This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. EFF lost a lot of credence to me after the Best Buy case. They made this big fuss about how Geek Squad employees were agents of the state for reporting CSAM on a customers hard drive, while doing a requested file recovery. When searched, the defend…

>This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. The analogy isn't great. Anti-virus/malware software provides a benefit to the owner of the device; Apple's software does not.

Apple is using this as a proxy for scanning their iCloud infrastructure. If you are using their cloud service, it does provide a benefit to the owner of those machines.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#27

Post by threeseed »

2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote: post #25
carom wrote: post #14

This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. EFF lost a lot of credence to me after the Best Buy case. They made this big fuss about how Geek Squad employees were agents of the state for reporting CSAM on a customers hard drive, while doing a requested file recovery. When searched, the defend…

> It scans your photos, for known CSAM images No, it scans photos for arbitray (fancy) hashes, and Apple chooses to limit it to CSAM images. Nothing about the tech prevents it from being expanded to other kinds of images. And from what I understand, nothing prevents it from being expanded to other filetypes either, does it? The only thing that ties this tech to CSAM images is Apples promise (and claim) to keep the sc…

This sort of argument is just bizarre to me.

If you think Apple is on a slippery slope and will just expand this feature without any consideration then why have an issue now ?

Apple already has your unencrypted photos. They could scan it server-side. Or they scan it on your device and simply not tell you. And they can push OS updates without you knowing to enable all of this.

Apple could even push CSAM to your phone and frame you if they wanted to. They control ALL of the keys to your device whilst you are using iCloud and allowing software updates.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#28

Post by BluSyn »

djanogo wrote: post #19
carom wrote: post #14

This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. EFF lost a lot of credence to me after the Best Buy case. They made this big fuss about how Geek Squad employees were agents of the state for reporting CSAM on a customers hard drive, while doing a requested file recovery. When searched, the defend…

"Virus Scanner" is optional, many ways to disable it, you won't be arrested if you are infected, and government doesn't get to decide what virus is. Apple scanning is NOT optional, if they have false match or mess up you will be charged/investigated for one of THE most hated crimes in human history, even if you win the case the damage will be irreparable. You lost your mind if you think governments are not going to s…

It is optional to use iCloud Photos. There's no indication you get arrested if they find something, it isn't reported directly to FBI. Apple will just disable your account, and there is an appeals process to restore it if they made a mistake.

There's more nuance here beyond the clickbait headlines.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#29

Post by weikju »

threeseed wrote: post #23
Nicksil wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. The analogy isn't great. Anti-virus/malware software provides a benefit to the owner of the device; Apple's software does not.

If you are a parent you very much will appreciate your children not receiving or sending explicit photos. As someone who cares for society I am thrilled that Apple is preventing the dissemination of CSAM.

I think most people are fine with the measures taken in Messages, much less so with the measures taken with scanning of images and reporting to authorities, and the possible scope creep that is only prevented by policy, rather than by capability.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#30

Post by unityByFreedom »

carom wrote: post #14

This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. EFF lost a lot of credence to me after the Best Buy case. They made this big fuss about how Geek Squad employees were agents of the state for reporting CSAM on a customers hard drive, while doing a requested file recovery. When searched, the defend…

What are your thoughts on state actors asking Apple to use this technology to imprison dissidents?

This effectively criminalizes anything the state deems unacceptable, which in some countries includes criticizing the ruling party. Is it right for an American company to open their gates to that?

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