Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#21

Post by Meph504 » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 6:38 PM UTC

villgax wrote: post #16

Come to think of it Windows licensing isn't tied to your email address rather to your hardware(OEM/OTS). Literally every CPU that needs genuine windows needs to have a paid license even if you just bought two machines in 2 years, such a fucking joke.

Windows that come preinstalled from a hardware vendor have OEM lisc.

If you buy windows that isn't OEM the keys are now bound to your email address (more accurately your Microsoft account) those version of windows are easily transportable between hardware.

People often make the mistake of purchasing OEM windows because of the reduced cost but fail to realize they are hardware bound at registration.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#22

Post by jayd16 » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

dtagames wrote: post #14

jayd16 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has a touchscreen which windows supports. Won't it feel like a surface in tablet mode?

I think you'll be very hard pressed to use a tiny device without a mouse or keyboard effectively in Windows. Even Windows 11 contains numerous small and overlapping dialogs with all kinds of UI affordances. None of this is setup for touch. Yes, theoretically, you could get it to work, but it won't be fun. The pop-up keyboard, for example, will likely cover a big part of whatever dialog box you're typing into. Moving…

Windows does have a tablet mode where things have been setup for touch. You can argue it's crap but it does exist and is officially supported.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#23

Post by hypertele-Xii » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:55 PM UTC

mimixco wrote: post #2

I'm excited about the Steam Deck but hesitant about this Linux decision. Despite Gabe Newell's objections, Windows works quite well as a gaming UI. The Xbox runs Windows and all of Steam's games work on Windows, so calling it a "steaming pile" or whatever really isn't accurate. It's more like sour grapes. Steam managed to create the Windows gaming environment out of whole cloth. Microsoft's attempt to control gaming…

You're lecturing Valve about top shooters?

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#24

Post by hypertele-Xii » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

mimixco wrote: post #4

beezischillin wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did say you can run Windows on it if you want to. And Steam Big Picture will work as an Xbox-like UI if you want one.

I know. But that's not a smoothly-integrated user experience and navigating the rest of Windows on that machine without a mouse and keyboard is going to be a pain. Steam didn't build a console UI that works from the boot state, like MS did for the Xbox version of Windows. If it were up to me, I think I would have picked that approach rather than adding an emulation layer (Proton/WINE) in-between.

> without a mouse and keyboard

The track pad works surprisingly well as a mouse in this configuration. I used the Steam Controller as a wireless couch mouse, solid.

The Deck has that, plus touchscreen keyboard. Not the best, wouldn't do programming like that, but good enough for configure typing.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#25

Post by mimixco » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 11:46 PM UTC

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #23

mimixco wrote: post #2

I'm excited about the Steam Deck but hesitant about this Linux decision. Despite Gabe Newell's objections, Windows works quite well as a gaming UI. The Xbox runs Windows and all of Steam's games work on Windows, so calling it a "steaming pile" or whatever really isn't accurate. It's more like sour grapes. Steam managed to create the Windows gaming environment out of whole cloth. Microsoft's attempt to control gaming…

You're lecturing Valve about top shooters?

Not lecturing anyone. Just citing from the article why that might be a stumbling block. I'm a happy Steam customer. No complaints from me and I have no dog in the fight. I hope Steam Deck is very successful.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#26

Post by staticman2 » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 3:15 AM UTC

mimixco wrote: post #20

staticman2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd probably dock the Steam Deck if you want to manage files. Though I imagine the touch screen would be usable for simple actions like rebooting to update windows. Putting windows into tablet mode and searching with the on screen keyboard may work better than attempting to click icons or use the desktop in handheld mode.

Yes, all of these workarounds are examples of why it's not a workable solution. Can you imagine if a Nintendo Switch required that much falderal? It wouldn't sell. The point I'm making is that normal folks will not dock it or goof around with touchscreen compromises in order to run Windows, which they will also have to install themselves! This is the opposite of a smooth, integrated, pick-up-and-play experience. Sinc…

Valve's core audience consists of PC Gamers. Any PC Gamer has to be used to a little tinkering. It comes with using a PC instead of a console.

A Microsoft handheld would run less games that a Steam Deck with Windows because console exclusives like Horizon Zero Dawn are available on Steam but will never be on Xbox. An Xbox device also wouldn't support emulators or someone's existing Steam library.

I don't know to what extent it would be worth it for Microsoft to dabble in that area. PlayStation Vita didn't work out so well for Sony.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#27

Post by mimixco » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:30 PM UTC

staticman2 wrote: post #26

mimixco wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, all of these workarounds are examples of why it's not a workable solution. Can you imagine if a Nintendo Switch required that much falderal? It wouldn't sell. The point I'm making is that normal folks will not dock it or goof around with touchscreen compromises in order to run Windows, which they will also have to install themselves! This is the opposite of a smooth, integrated, pick-up-and-play experience. Sinc…

Valve's core audience consists of PC Gamers. Any PC Gamer has to be used to a little tinkering. It comes with using a PC instead of a console. A Microsoft handheld would run less games that a Steam Deck with Windows because console exclusives like Horizon Zero Dawn are available on Steam but will never be on Xbox. An Xbox device also wouldn't support emulators or someone's existing Steam library. I don't know to what…

Xbox runs Windows so MS could make everything work on a handheld device w/ Windows w/ an Xbox-style UI. Xbox ran Windows from the very beginning. Only the "chrome" is different.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#28

Post by staticman2 » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

mimixco wrote: post #27

staticman2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve's core audience consists of PC Gamers. Any PC Gamer has to be used to a little tinkering. It comes with using a PC instead of a console. A Microsoft handheld would run less games that a Steam Deck with Windows because console exclusives like Horizon Zero Dawn are available on Steam but will never be on Xbox. An Xbox device also wouldn't support emulators or someone's existing Steam library. I don't know to what…

Xbox runs Windows so MS could make everything work on a handheld device w/ Windows w/ an Xbox-style UI. Xbox ran Windows from the very beginning. Only the "chrome" is different.

I doubt Microsoft would make a handheld that was "open" like the Steam Deck. They'd follow the console business model of only allowing software from the Microsoft store and it would likely not sell very well. It would be Windows Phone all over again.

Re: Why Does the Steam Deck Run Linux? Blame Windows

#29

Post by mimixco » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 11:25 PM UTC

staticman2 wrote: post #28

mimixco wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xbox runs Windows so MS could make everything work on a handheld device w/ Windows w/ an Xbox-style UI. Xbox ran Windows from the very beginning. Only the "chrome" is different.

I doubt Microsoft would make a handheld that was "open" like the Steam Deck. They'd follow the console business model of only allowing software from the Microsoft store and it would likely not sell very well. It would be Windows Phone all over again.

True. But Nintendo has sold very well from their proprietary handheld device and its store. So they probably think they can. Maybe they can. They already have a great UI in Xbox and a great library of games that will run. They might not need anything else to make it.