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The Highbrow Neanderthal

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Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal

#21

Post by nerdponx »

robbedpeter wrote: post #6
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That homo sapiens sapiens most likely displaced them, but that doesn't really mean as much as your comment might intend to insinuate. Neanderthals lasted half a million years, and the more we learn the more we appraise them as sophisticated. That said, they seem to have faced a caloric challenge in a world with sparse mega fauna. Based on everything I've read, modern humans pre-language excelled at one specific thing…

That's a pretty brutal selection mechanism. How fast and far can you go while slowly starving with your tribe in tow...

I wonder if it's not only the "brutal" aspect.

Maybe it's generally an advantage when it comes to exploration, e.g. finding new places to settle. Or maybe it's specifically an advantage when hunting, as in endurance hunting.

Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal

#22

Post by hoseja »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #5
wombatmobile wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it tell us that none of the other hominid lineages survived?

That homo sapiens sapiens most likely displaced them, but that doesn't really mean as much as your comment might intend to insinuate. Neanderthals lasted half a million years, and the more we learn the more we appraise them as sophisticated. That said, they seem to have faced a caloric challenge in a world with sparse mega fauna. Based on everything I've read, modern humans pre-language excelled at one specific thing…

Seems Neanderthals may be even better adapted to modern living than us. Higher energy consumption certainly seems like a beneficial trait nowadays.

Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal

#23

Post by mod50ack »

vc43fsdf wrote: post #20

Just will add this: we don't know, maybe the Neanderthals already could speak thousands of years before the Home Sapiens learned to do so. Then the original Neanderthal civilization had a sharp edge over the Sapiens, through thousand of years. Ok, everyone says here "but technological development SHOULD have happened". And I would say "not necessarily", and it actually could happened a couple of times, but it didn't…

It's not just the Essenes. Jews generally have a long history of handwashing. I've heard some things conjectured with regards to this and the black plague.

Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal

#24

Post by fuzzfactor »

sgt101 wrote: post #17
singularity2001 wrote: post #16

As much as it is the new vogue to claim that Neanderthals where artistic, I am not convinced yet that these artifacts are not signs of newcomers (homo sapiens).

What evidence would you find convincing?

It's been a while and it's hard to remember but back when I was a Neanderthal we had some neighbors who were quite advanced for those prehistoric times.

They not only had paintings on the wall but they were already using the beak of a live domesticated fowl to reproduce their tribal rhythms from vinyl records spinning on stone turntables.

IIRC their names were Fred & Barney.

So n=2.

Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal

#25

Post by convnet »

mod50ack wrote: post #23
vc43fsdf wrote: post #20

Just will add this: we don't know, maybe the Neanderthals already could speak thousands of years before the Home Sapiens learned to do so. Then the original Neanderthal civilization had a sharp edge over the Sapiens, through thousand of years. Ok, everyone says here "but technological development SHOULD have happened". And I would say "not necessarily", and it actually could happened a couple of times, but it didn't…

It's not just the Essenes. Jews generally have a long history of handwashing. I've heard some things conjectured with regards to this and the black plague.

Yeah you're commanded to wash your hands before eating and after you wake up.

Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal

#26

Post by tabtab »

If homo sapiens weren't around, then Neanderthals perhaps would have been first to civilization. They would have spread south and started trading and socializing more, as trade was one of the biggest boost to sapiens because one didn't have to find all the "good stuff" on the same land anymore. Those with extra top-notch stones but short food could trade. "Comparative advantage" long before Adam Smith's time. The instinct to war with competitors would be diminished as those good at trade could prosper without risking war dead.

Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal

#27

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #13
robbedpeter wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty brutal selection mechanism. How fast and far can you go while slowly starving with your tribe in tow...

As as been observed, nature is as metal as it gets.

^ has (sighs)

Re: The Highbrow Neanderthal

#28

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

hoseja wrote: post #22
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That homo sapiens sapiens most likely displaced them, but that doesn't really mean as much as your comment might intend to insinuate. Neanderthals lasted half a million years, and the more we learn the more we appraise them as sophisticated. That said, they seem to have faced a caloric challenge in a world with sparse mega fauna. Based on everything I've read, modern humans pre-language excelled at one specific thing…

Seems Neanderthals may be even better adapted to modern living than us. Higher energy consumption certainly seems like a beneficial trait nowadays.

That's an interesting idea, that there was essentially a trough to get through before the neolithic revolution and the (relative) caloric abundance it brought.
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