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Hook.io - a full featured i/o framework for node.js which aims to take on erlang

hook.io

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Re: Hook.io - a full featured i/o framework for node.js which aims to take on erlang

#21

Post by sjtgraham »

alnayyir wrote: post #20
sjtgraham wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shallow? I can't roll my eyes at those whom complain about noisy/unpleasant syntax. It's quite important that it's agreeable to you if you have to stare at it all day long. Sure, there are many other important considerations when evaluating a language, but being concerned with syntax is hardly shallow IMHO.

Have you spent more than a tutorial with Erlang?

Is that the point? Am I criticising Erlang myself? No, I'm just merely pointing out that being concerned with language aesthetics is not the "most shallow" thing imaginable.

Re: Hook.io - a full featured i/o framework for node.js which aims to take on erlang

#22

Post by changelog »

alnayyir wrote: post #16
audiotron wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you say that?

Do I need to enumerate the many problems with node.js's runtime that make it unsuitable as a replacement for Erlang which has been done many times before?

Considering one of the authors of CouchDB has already chimed in saying he think's this is a neat idea, yes I think you should enumerate those reasons or provide similar credentials.

Re: Hook.io - a full featured i/o framework for node.js which aims to take on erlang

#23

Post by changelog »

alnayyir wrote: post #18
barracks wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The project is pre semver 1.0.0, it should not be considering suitable for production. You'll have to be way more specific about what you mean by "handle errors". Do you mean node to node connection errors? Node to node messaging errors? Errors localized in a custom Hook? I suggest just reading through the codebase, it's not that big. The entire philosophy is crash only processes which are supervised by Forever. In t…

> The entire philosophy is crash only processes which are supervised by Forever. > we usually get let things crash and restart. >This isn't idea for guaranteeing delivery of messages That is not Erlang.

I think you might be mistaken.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash-only_software

Erlang is a computer language originally built by Ericsson for fault-tolerant telephone switches. Programs are structured as modules that can be replaced (hot swapped) without having to restart the entire program. If a module crashes or needs to be updated it can be restarted or replaced without affecting any other part of the program. Within the Open Telecom Platform, which often is used together with Erlang, there exist frameworks to simplify and automate this task.

Re: Hook.io - a full featured i/o framework for node.js which aims to take on erlang

#24

Post by alnayyir »

changelog wrote: post #23
alnayyir wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The entire philosophy is crash only processes which are supervised by Forever. > we usually get let things crash and restart. >This isn't idea for guaranteeing delivery of messages That is not Erlang.

I think you might be mistaken. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash-only_software Erlang is a computer language originally built by Ericsson for fault-tolerant telephone switches. Programs are structured as modules that can be replaced (hot swapped) without having to restart the entire program. If a module crashes or needs to be updated it can be restarted or replaced without affecting any other part of the progr…

Crash-only is an aspect of Erlang, you've not replaced the entirety of what makes Erlang uniquely useful.

Re: Hook.io - a full featured i/o framework for node.js which aims to take on erlang

#25

Post by alnayyir »

changelog wrote: post #22
alnayyir wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I need to enumerate the many problems with node.js's runtime that make it unsuitable as a replacement for Erlang which has been done many times before?

Considering one of the authors of CouchDB has already chimed in saying he think's this is a neat idea, yes I think you should enumerate those reasons or provide similar credentials.

Same said person, Quote: "I don't think Node will ever replace Erlang for what Erlang is good for. "

In the same comment too.

Also, credentials? Do you have to be famous to be able to comment on anything with any experience or knowledge? Have we become that obsessed with programmer pseudo-celebrity?

I'd expect as much from a nodejitsu member though, the team of relentless self-promotion.

Edit: For the record, what he said, is precisely what I'm trying to express. Please explain how that is incorrect.

Re: Hook.io - a full featured i/o framework for node.js which aims to take on erlang

#26

Post by barracks »

alnayyir wrote: post #25
changelog wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering one of the authors of CouchDB has already chimed in saying he think's this is a neat idea, yes I think you should enumerate those reasons or provide similar credentials.

Same said person, Quote: "I don't think Node will ever replace Erlang for what Erlang is good for. " In the same comment too. Also, credentials? Do you have to be famous to be able to comment on anything with any experience or knowledge? Have we become that obsessed with programmer pseudo-celebrity? I'd expect as much from a nodejitsu member though, the team of relentless self-promotion. Edit: For the record, what he…

Ugh, just came in from IRC.

This same individual alnayyir ( Chris Allen ) feels the constant need to insult my company and team every-time he catches a glimpse of us online.

At least he's not making up rumors this time like me "threatening him with a handgun". ( see: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2565609 )

Re: Hook.io - a full featured i/o framework for node.js which aims to take on erlang

#27

Post by hussam »

I don't get it. I am an Erlanger and I don't understand in what sense is this supposed to be like Erlang. The provided documentation is to be insufficient.

What is hook.io all about? Is it mainly a framework for sending/receiving events (messages) between different processes?

Re: Hook.io - a full featured i/o framework for node.js which aims to take on erlang

#28

Post by wladimir »

sjtgraham wrote: post #19
alnayyir wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Syntax is potentially the most shallow thing to complain about, particularly when it actually makes sense in the structure of the language in question (like Erlang) and doesn't hurt readability for anyone (unlike some perceptions of Lisp).

Shallow? I can't roll my eyes at those whom complain about noisy/unpleasant syntax. It's quite important that it's agreeable to you if you have to stare at it all day long. Sure, there are many other important considerations when evaluating a language, but being concerned with syntax is hardly shallow IMHO.

Yes it depends. There might be legitimate complaints that arise when you "have to stare at it all day long". I'd take syntax complaints from people that have used a language for a long time far more serious than syntax complaints from people that see it for the first time (and still have to train their pattern recognizer :-). Those are shallow.

Re: Hook.io - a full featured i/o framework for node.js which aims to take on erlang

#29

Post by bradleymeck »

alnayyir wrote: post #18
barracks wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The project is pre semver 1.0.0, it should not be considering suitable for production. You'll have to be way more specific about what you mean by "handle errors". Do you mean node to node connection errors? Node to node messaging errors? Errors localized in a custom Hook? I suggest just reading through the codebase, it's not that big. The entire philosophy is crash only processes which are supervised by Forever. In t…

> The entire philosophy is crash only processes which are supervised by Forever. > we usually get let things crash and restart. >This isn't idea for guaranteeing delivery of messages That is not Erlang.

Indeed not, but Erlang is Erlang, Hook.io is Hook.io, and Trolls are Trolls. More perspective on opinions would be helpful to evolving away from problems you see, and/or for the use of understanding your comment.

Re: Hook.io - a full featured i/o framework for node.js which aims to take on erlang

#30

Post by alnayyir »

wladimir wrote: post #28
sjtgraham wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shallow? I can't roll my eyes at those whom complain about noisy/unpleasant syntax. It's quite important that it's agreeable to you if you have to stare at it all day long. Sure, there are many other important considerations when evaluating a language, but being concerned with syntax is hardly shallow IMHO.

Yes it depends. There might be legitimate complaints that arise when you "have to stare at it all day long". I'd take syntax complaints from people that have used a language for a long time far more serious than syntax complaints from people that see it for the first time (and still have to train their pattern recognizer :-). Those are shallow.

Precisely.
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